Follow Up Calls in Sales: Conquer Conversations & Close Deals

Why sales professionals struggle with follow up calls in sales

– Understanding the challenges of follow-up calls in sales

Fred Diamond 00:03
All right, thank you so much. Welcome to another sales game changers podcast. My name is Fred diamond of course, I’m the co founder of the Institute for excellence in sales. And I’m also the host and the producer of the sales game changers podcast Mustapha, we’ve had over 550 episodes we’ve had well over a million people interact with the show, it actually led to the publication of our book insights for sales game changers, you can find that on Amazon.

Of course, I’m a two time published author insights for sales game changers. And I also wrote love, hope lime with family members, partners and friends who have a chronic Lyme survivor need to know and you were actually very helpful you spend a little bit of time helping me kind of think through some of the marketing strategies that we were going to do for the book and we’ll get to your story in a second.

Again, our guest today is Mostafa Hosseini, you could read every sales game changers podcasts, transcription that we’ve ever done, go to salesgamechangerspodcast.com/ Mostafa Hosseini, we’ll also have his information in the show notes and up on LinkedIn.

And he’s going to make an offer at the end of the show, which will also be up on the show notes as well. So I’m gonna stuff I’m really excited to talk to you, you and I met through an online networking organization called JVMM, we’ve been following each other. And I really love your energy. And I really love what we’re going to be talking about today. And the topic basically is Why follow up phone calls aren’t really helpful. Now, it’s kind of interesting, because we talk a lot about the fact that so many sales are dropped, because salespeople just don’t follow up.

So it’s great to see you’re the founder of per sale, you’ve also created so many great things, a simple retention formula, the simple marketing formula, the simple offer formula. 

So if anybody knows how to break this stuff down, it’s you. So first question, why do sales professionals struggle with the follow up?

Sales strategies and follow-up techniques

– Providing service through follow-up
– Emphasizing passion and persistence
– Simplifying the follow-up process

Mostafa Hosseini 02:09
So first of all, thanks for having me here. It’s great to hang out with you. And I look forward to our conversation. So as far as follow up calls in sales goes, there’s this couple of neath, and in my experience, thought patterns that stops people from following up. 

First one, people say is they say I don’t want to bother them. And so when there’s someone opts in and they do, they raise their hand, say, Hey, I have a problem, I need help.

Or I’m interested in what you guys are doing. They about the stats are that about 50% of salespeople never follow up. And so the ones that do follow up about a large portion follow up only once and they stop. Right. Now, I’ve heard I’ve heard this quite a bit with business owners and salespeople. And they say I don’t want to bother them.

And fact of the matter is when someone raises their hand and says, Look, Fred, I need help. You know, I haven’t bleeding neck, I need you to save me. If you go out there and reach out and work on serving them, you’re not actually bothering them by the fact that you’re not following up, you’re bothering them. Right. So if they have a problem, they expect a solution and it’s on you to do follow up calls in sales. Yeah, and I know

Fred Diamond 03:35
you just made a really excellent point. And we talk about this a lot in the sales game changers podcast, the fact that people get stuck when they think they’re being salesy, even great sales professionals. You know, we typically interview VPs of sales at some of the top companies in the world, people who had 20 30 year careers, and they talked about the fact that you don’t want to be seen as too persistent.

You don’t want to be seen as, as to, quote unquote salesy, if you will, and I love what you just said, the notion that sales is about service.

Mostafa Hosseini 04:07
Absolutely. And then the second one is actually people say I don’t want to be salesy. So here’s a here’s a philosophy that might help with that. And that is, for me, myself, I believe in my service, so much so that it’s my responsibility to hold myself responsible enough to follow up and even I may appear salesy at some points, because I believe in my product because I know it provides value to my customers. 

It’s okay if someone wants to call me salesy, right. You raise your hand you said Mostafa, I have a problem with my back. It hurts and I need help.

And I’m like, Alright, I can help you. I know that I can. I have a solution. I have experience. I have credibility. I have expertise. It’s okay. If you call me salesy, right, it’s okay if you call To be pushy, all I care about care about is the fact that I could help you, I could help you fix that problem. You can call me an asshole you call me anything? Right?

Fred Diamond 05:12
Yeah, I know, that’s it’s a really interesting point that you bring up there is that a couple of things I want to hit on. And salespeople a lot of times they forget this. It’s the passion that you have for helping people. Right. So you know, it’s people get lost, I think in being passionate about what they’re bringing to the market. Yeah, you gotta love your product, right?

You got to believe in it. You got to believe in how you’re helping people. But the real passion comes in through what I just said, it’s, it’s not about what you’re bringing to the market, it’s about what you’re bringing to the market is going to be helping people solve their problems. And here’s the thing. The last two years, man, a lot of people have been struggling with a lot of things. And if you’re bringing something that’s going to help them solve, even the minor is to have problems. There’s a lot of value in that

Mostafa Hosseini 05:55
100%, can I take it to the next level, please do. So there’s also the customers that most of the time when someone says, Oh, this guy was pushy, it’s because they have their own inner limits. So now as salespeople, we have to be responsible enough to hold them responsible, and get them out of their own way, through persistent and consistent follow up calls in sales and with passion. Once I, once I follow up enough times and show that I care about them, I kind of build the credibility and the expertise that yes, I have a product, yes, I can help you.

Yes, I care about you, and I can fix your problem. It’s not really that big of a deal. Let’s actually get on this and fix it. Because a lot of times people make a big deal about fixing an issue. They think, Oh, my God is unfixable. It’s, it’s not doable. We’re like, you know, what I have, I have a three step process. Let’s do this, shall we? And then we just get to it. I

Fred Diamond 06:53
want to talk about that for a little bit. Again, the company’s called Persyo. And again, I mentioned some of the offerings that you’ve created. And one thing that I find quite remarkable about you is that you’ve really simplified it. And sometimes people say to me, well, sales is really simple. Well, first of all, sales isn’t really simple. Because it’s very hard.

You need to be a professional, you know, to sell to some of the largest corporations or government agencies or healthcare facilities in the world, you have to be intelligent, thoughtful, strategic, you have to understand data, you have to understand the customer’s budgeting processes, there’s so many things you need to learn.

So it’s, it’s really not simple. But at the same time, the concept is simple. You’re bringing something to them, that’s going to help them solve a problem that they can’t do for themselves. So talk a little bit about the company per se do and how you’ve dealt with why and how you develop some of these processes.

Mostafa Hosseini 07:44
Sure, so you know how people go out there and spend a lot of time and money to find leads, and then they don’t do follow up calls in sales. And they leave a lot of money on the table, what we do is we fix that problem, we fix the follow up problem. And so I run a call center specializing in follow up calls in sales and customer retention.

So what we do is we manage the follow up process. Like as an outsourced company, we manage the follow ups for our customers, from the moment customers opting to download the lead magnet all the way to a webinar to an event, existing customers and past customers, we just make sure that the customers are not ignored, that they don’t feel ignored, and that we’re not leaving any money, money on the table. Basically, that’s what we do in a nutshell.

Lead magnets, customer retention, and sales to existing customers

– Using lead magnets to retain customers
– Leveraging existing customer trust
– Mastering customer retention

Fred Diamond 08:32
So interestingly, somebody just asked a question about a lead magnet, what exactly is a lead magnet? And what are some of the lead magnets after you define them that you have found to be most valuable?

Mostafa Hosseini 08:42
A lead magnet could be a checklist, it could be your book, it could be a chapter of your book, actually, I have a book coming up simple retention formula, which was which I’m going to gift it to your audience, once it’s ready.

What else could it be, it could be a webinar, it could be a training, it could be the an infographic and various types of information that your customers and clients may find useful. And so it speaks to their pain and it speaks to their challenge helps them fix a problem or shed some light on an issue that they’re working on. And they opt in to download the lead magnet. And that’s when they become a lead. I guess

Fred Diamond 09:28
One thing is you just talked on is so critical. The concept of selling to existing customers, it’s so hard to find new customers even if you’re a top brand or whatever it might be, you know companies, the customers they like to work with people they’ve worked with before they don’t like to one thing that people don’t really understand and sales are they probably understand but they have to be reminded of is the customer’s main goal is to eliminate risk, right for the most part, every customer of technology or financial services.

They don’t want to be the customer who bought Wrong thing who brought their company down who cost millions who decreased productivity, if you will. So you know, it’s really about reducing risk and talk a little bit about selling to existing customers, because you have developed some degree of trust with them, maybe they’re not a customer right now, because of whatever the reasons might be. Talk why it’s so critical to be focusing on the existing customers and keeping them in the process with where you are 100%.

Mostafa Hosseini 10:28
So just as you said, it is so much easier and faster, to sell to an existing customer versus to our brand new customer, it’s actually about 50 to 70% easier to sell to someone that knows likes and trusts you to have given you their credit card or cash before you have served them. And there is a relationship, right, compared to average Joe on Facebook, who has no clue who we are, now we’re trying to convince them bring them in, go through that entire lengthy process of showing them that yes, I’m awesome. By my stuff, right?

And so can I share a story, please? Yeah. So I ran an agency from 2010 to 2018, we did agency digital marketing. Now, back in the day, I learned about the power of retention, and follow up calls in sales from Dan Kennedy, and how it’s like a low hanging fruit and nobody does it. So the story is that every time I ran out of cash, customers appointments or referrals, or I had like a deadline for a payment and whatnot, I would pull my hair out for a few days, and I would worry about it, then I would come to my senses and realize that I have a list of leads and customers and past customers.

So I would pick up the phone, make him a round of calls, and I kid you not on the day of or very shortly after I would get cash, appointments, introductions, referrals, you name it. So then I started. So we kept doing this, this is I’m like, This is awesome. I’m gonna call my list every every few months. And now we actually call our lists every three or four months. And we do it for our customers as well. So we’re consistently in touch.

Then I started teaching this at simple marketing formula. And where I taught people how to create a simple marketing plan, because I’m about set at 20. And simple and simplicity and whatnot. On the last module was always customer retention. I was like people, here’s the script. Here’s the process. Take this, call your existing people, and you’re going to see cash today, starting today. And nobody would do it turns out people hate to pick up the phone. Yeah, even salespeople and you know, professionals. So I’d happened a few times. And then, and then I had a guy who was making calls for us. And he was looking for more work. So in my workshop, I was like people, I have a guy who can make calls for you to your list who wants an introduction? Everybody?

Then I’m like, Oh, this is interesting. What if we do it for you? And we manage it for you? They’re like, Yes, brother, Sign me up. And then that’s how we actually got to start it. So I love and here’s here’s another fact, this has been our most profitable highest converting marketing activity, period. Yeah.

Sales strategies, referrals, and follow-ups

– Harnessing the power of referrals
– Overcoming myths about follow up calls in sales

Fred Diamond 13:18
Yeah, you know, I would say a couple of things. One is, that story is a great story. Dan Kennedy, of course, is one of the true legends of marketing, if you will. Are you familiar with an author named Alex gold Fain? You know, Alex at all? I don’t know. He’s written some great books. He’s been on the sales game changers podcast a couple of times. And his most recent book, he talks about using the phone as the top of funnel activity, right?

Not email, text, phone, not LinkedIn, invite phone, but it’s mainly for people who are warmed with you, right? Either existing customers or partners, or lapsed customers or current customers. He says, You know what, pick up the phone four times a day, he doesn’t say 50 times a day, he says four times a day. And just call because if people aren’t expecting phone calls anymore.

They’re expecting an email or a text or LinkedIn message, if you will. And he said, the phone is going to shock people. And it’s going to engage them in conversations. And if you’re in sales, yeah, sales. One thing that you should be good at, is conversations. I mean, sales is at the end of the day. There’s so many different aspects. But one thing that sales is, is about getting to the next conversation, right? It’s about having the opportunity to literally speak to someone another time and we’re constantly thinking about how do I get that type of verbal, and hopefully it’s in person.

You know, I mean, obviously, the world has gotten remote. We all know that but so much more power happens when you’re able to be in person with that person, but even just on the phone as well.

Mostafa Hosseini 14:53
100% So, in this digital day and age to human interaction is missing quite a bit. Yeah, it’s a lot of LinkedIn and email and different apps that were just, you know, swiping from one picture to the other liking and commenting and this and that the conversation pieces missing. And so we I like face to face conversations, and I love to chat with people.

And so, actually, most of my convert conversions come from conversations and relationships. So it works. So, yeah,

Fred Diamond 15:30
one thing he talked about as well, he’s talking about some of the myths that are out there that business owners and salespeople have about follow ups. What are some of the myths that you think are out there?

Mostafa Hosseini 15:39
So we started with the myth, the first one was, I don’t want to bother them. That’s a big myth. You’re not bothering them. You’re actually bothering them by not following up. Second one is, I don’t want to be salesy. It’s like brother because someone raised their hand and they said, I’m dying. They need help. You’re not being salesy. Imagine, imagine if you go to a doctor and say, Doctor, I’m dying, Help me Help me. And the doctor says, Oh, I don’t want to be salesy. I don’t want to, I’m not gonna step forward, like Dude, the guy who’s dying, right.

So those are a couple of big myths, that stops people from going out there and serving people and providing value and help them with their solution. Oh,

Fred Diamond 16:21
that is such a great analogy of the doctor who says, you know, it’s a I don’t want to be too intrusive. You know, I see you’re bleeding. But you’d like to have permission. If I serve you and mentioned EMT or something if the T, someone like that, but now that is a great point.

And you know what, it’s actually one of the best points that I think I’ve heard on the sales game changers podcast in a while, because, you know, we talk a lot about service. We’ve been touched on this a few minutes ago. Again, we’re talking to Mostafa Hosseini with Persyo, and sales, you know, if you use that type of an analogy, that you are there to serve the customer.
And here’s the thing, if you’re gonna give the customer something that they don’t need, they don’t see any value in, it will not help them solve their problem and face that’s facing them right now.

And here’s one of the things most people who are your prospects or customers are challenged with solving something right now. Right? Even still, we’re two and a half years after the start of the pandemic and everything, people are still struggling with what’s in their face right now, or for the very, very short and foreseeable future.

I was talking about referrals for a little bit, you also touch on referrals a lot. So talk about why not just something mundane, like why they’re important, but get get a little bit deeper with that tell us about why referrals are so critical to the process and give us some of your advice on how to get 100%.

Sales strategies and outsourcing follow up calls in sales

– Maximizing referrals from existing customers
– Streamlining tasks for sales professionals
– Reactivating existing customer lists

Mostafa Hosseini 17:40
So referrals come from good service, good relationship, credibility, trust, and you know, results and value. Once we provide Dad, it kind of helps us get referrals. But in, in some cases, we don’t even have to do a lot of that to get a referral, for example, when we follow up when so when with someone that opted in to get a lead magnet from us, let’s say that they they downloaded the checklist. So what we do is we call them up and say, hi, Fred Mustapha, here, the reason I’m calling you is in my system shows you have downloaded my checklist, right?

Does that ring a bell. And if it’s recent, it obviously should ring a bell, then we have a conversation and work on qualifying them and see if they’re a good fit, we work on booking an appointment to have a conversation. Now if they’re not a good fit, we always ask for a referral, an introduction, because maybe the person in front of me is not a good fit is not ready to join. But maybe they know someone that is a good fit that is ready to join. And if I don’t ask, I probably I’m not going to get it. Right.

So this the question is simply who do you know that is having a problem with sales? Who do you know that is having a problem with their follow up calls in sales? So that’s where even that’s what people that are leads and they’re not qualified. Now, when you go back to your existing customers or past customers, you can reach out have a very friendly, non salesy non pushy conversation just to touch base to see how they’re doing at the human element. And at the end of the day, be like, hey, Fred, I’m just curious, who do you know that is having problems with their follow up?

Or who do you know this have problem with their sales or their neck or whatever you do? And you’d be surprised how often people are like, you know, what, I actually know Joe, who runs this company, who is this person who may need your help? When you ask that question 100 times, I can guarantee you between one to five referrals, at least one? Yeah, you know, that deal is going to be

Fred Diamond 19:52
no I hear you and actually, you know, it’s a couple things that you bring it up and again, you know, the purpose of your company is to do some things a lot of times we tell ourselves People will you gotta get better at making phone calls and picking up the phone. I know what they’re not going to know, even someone who has been successful for 30 years, you know, maybe they’re going to be comfortable picking up the phone talking to existing customers, because they probably develop that relationship. Right. But you know, for most people, it’s just hard.

It’s the hardest thing ask it. You know, there’s so many things like, again, we mentioned this in the beginning, Mostafa, there’s so many things that are hard in the sales process, asking for the deal. getting in the door, you know, all those kinds of things, picking up the phone, it’s hard. So think about the sales professionals.

As you’re listening, what shouldn’t you What do you not want to be doing that you can hand off to someone that’s better? That’s a better use of your time and energy. I’m reminded of a sales game changers podcast episode we did with a guy named Mark Silverman, who was a seven figure sales professional, and he paid someone to do his expense reports. You know, you would think, well, you’re a salesperson, you know, Sunday night, you do your expense reports.

He said, You know that he just he hired somebody, he actually paid his admin to do that extra work on weekends. And he said, you know, his, he was a $500 an hour professional, and he paid her $50, or whatever it might have been? Because it wasn’t the best use. Yeah, it wasn’t the best use. Talk. Give us an example. If you don’t mind, you told us a story about how you got started. But give us a story of something you’ve done with a customer that’s been successful. Good. Tell us one of your success stories.

Mostafa Hosseini 21:23
Absolutely. So we were just working with a customer who DOES IT and technology for our customers. Now, they had a list of about 7000 people. But there was a portion of their list of only 400 people that were existing or past customers and they were more qualified to work with. So and they’ve almost never been in touch with these people other than emailing them once a week about a new offer. Click here to buy this new thing from my friend now.

So within a month, we did a reactivation campaign calling them up. And can I share a script here? Yeah, please. So you would call them up and say, hey, hey, Fred Mustapha, here, did I catch you at a bad time? And they may say no, they may say yes, but usually it’s not a terrible time. Right? You don’t want to answer I learned this from Chris Voss, the FBI negotiator.

But you want to know, know oriented questions, instead of asking, Is this a good time? And get them to say, yes, you want to say, is this a bad time? They’re like, No, it’s not a bad time. Then we say, look, the reason I’m calling is I just wanted to say hi. And I know that I have not been in touch for a year or two. But I just heard this guy on a podcast, or I just read a book. And I understood that I’ve done a terrible job at this.

So I just wanted to call and say hi, and touch base, right? And very friendly conversation. How are you? How are things? How is business? Right? And then we just take the conversation from there, what’s going on with your business in life? Is there any challenges that you’re working on? And if they’re qualified to have a conversation, then we offer a way to book an appointment? Right?

So with this customer out of 400 people, we booked 18 appointment appointments in one month, right? And that’s money left on the table. If they didn’t call if we didn’t pick up the phone, we would probably wouldn’t have gotten 18 appointment appointments within a month. And then they take it and that’s, that’s what we do. That’s what we focus on. You know,

Phone sales techniques and retention strategies

– Prioritizing human conversations
– Engaging customers with meaningful dialogue
– Implementing simple retention strategies

Fred Diamond 23:29
that’s an interesting thing I think most people with with the phone, they’re afraid it’s not that they don’t want to be salesy. It’s they’re afraid that people are going to reject them, right? It’s like, you know, if you’re not going to talk to somebody, it’s like, what’s, what’s the worst thing? This is like, again, we’re getting to a lot of basic type stuff here that people just need to overcome.

You know, I’ve met some great people who are very confident on the phone, obviously, your people are comfortable, because you know, what, what’s the worst thing that’s gonna happen is they’re gonna say, no one’s gonna yell and scream and curse you. If you’re like any existing customer or even, you know, a past customer or something like, why would they do that? They’re not going to

Mostafa Hosseini 24:03
100%. People say, Oh, I don’t want to be salesy, and my response is that don’t be salesy. This column, I’ve had to have a human conversation with them. Right.

Fred Diamond 24:15
And what’s interesting, one thing we talked a lot about over the last two years is, should you be calling people to say how were you? And you know, if you’re calling someone who doesn’t know you, and if you’re calling someone who’s totally random, like a quote unquote, prospect, I’m not going to engage in a conversation with you, you know, person who reached out to me via LinkedIn who I don’t know, to tell you who I am, you don’t know what’s going on my life.

I don’t really want to share but you know, what, if one of my customers wants to talk about how we’re dealing for a little bit, I’ll talk to you I’ll talk to you for an hour I’m reminded of i i live in Virginia, but I drive to Philadelphia, where my family is, every once in a while and it’s it’s about a four hour drive up 95 So I like to schedule phone calls during that time. I I called a customer who I hadn’t spoken to in a year. We’ve communicated via email and whatever.

And I scheduled a call with him as I was driving. And we got on the phone, he talked for the entire hour. Mustapha, he talked for the entire hour. And you know what that was, for me. It was a home run. People, like, people like to talk about what what’s going on? And, you know, then, of course, you know, we had appropriate response to things we’re gonna be doing. And, you know, he talked for an hour, man. And, you know, it’s like the old notion that people like to come up with their own highs, right.

They don’t like to be told, they’d like to discover things. Oh, listen, man. Today we yeah, we talked to Mostafa Hosseini with Paseo and, you know, why don’t we do this? Why don’t you and you have an offer that you’d like to give. And, and then after you do that, I’ll ask you for your final action step.

Mostafa Hosseini 25:53
So I’d like to offer the blueprint to a simple retention formula. As you know, keeping your customers is about same six to 10 times cheaper and less expensive than getting a new customer. So I’m sharing the step by step blueprint to a simple retention formula.

To get that you can go to precise.com, forward slash BQ, the link, I put in the chat box, and it’s probably going to be in the descriptions of the show. And people that get this will also get a copy of my upcoming book, simple retention formula, that you’ll get a copy of the book as well. I

Fred Diamond 26:27
really good thank you for doing that. Hey, before I ask you for your, your free final action. So I just want to acknowledge you for the for the great work you do. You’re very generous guy you help a lot of people out you, you handle a tough problem with your company that people were struggling with. And we talked about this over the last half hour, people just don’t like to do this, they don’t like to pick up the phone, etc.

So I just want to applaud you for for your success and for everything that you have done with so many companies around the globe. So, so good for you for making that easier and for helping companies be in a position to serve their customers, we will put the link in the show notes and up on LinkedIn as well. So I want to thank you before we wrap up as we do for every show, you’ve given us 1520 brilliant ideas, give us one more specific action step Mustapha. Something that people should do right now to take their sales career to the next level. So

Mostafa Hosseini 27:20
honestly, use the script that I shared earlier. Pick up a few phone numbers from your existing list of prospects or customers and have a very friendly conversation with them. Work on listening to them. ask probing questions, what’s going on? What’s the biggest challenge? Is this a pressing challenge?

Is this something you should address right away, and then see where they’re at and see what transpires from them. And always, always, always ask for a referral. Even if they’re not qualified, you never know they may introduce you to someone that is qualified. So that’s my simple tip that I’m going to leave you with.

Fred Diamond 27:55
No, that’s fantastic. And actually, you know, a lot of people who listen to the sales game changers podcast, they’re calling on big accounts, big companies, big government agencies, you know, even ask for referrals within your company, or within a customer’s company who else might be in another division or another sub agency that we might want to talk to great advice.

This has been a fun conversation. Again, I want to thank Mostafa Hosseini. Thank you so much everybody who listened to today’s sales game changers podcast. My name is Fred diamond. Thank you for listening