Business Messaging: Crafting Clear, Impactful Brand Messages – ep 96

Mostafa Hosseini  00:02

Welcome to daily confidence for entrepreneurs. In this episode, we will go over what is messaging and why is it important for your business? The three jobs your message does for your business, how you’re one of a kind message can eliminate your competition and put you in a category of one and you will get to enjoy getting yours truly exposed and coached by Michelle Mazur. My guest today is Michelle Mazur. Welcome, Michelle.

Michelle Mazur  00:32

Hello, I’m so excited to be here.

Mostafa Hosseini  00:36

Great to have you. And the topic today is what is messaging? And why is it important for your business, extremely important topic Hangout, invite your friends. And we’re going to dive into a very important message.

Because most businesses and I’ve been around marketing for a good 15 years don’t have this piece figured out. And they’re kind of up in the air. We’re going to talk about that. And we’re going to share some good examples. And you’re going to see what this whole thing is all about. So as usual, please make sure you like and subscribe the show, which on whichever channel you’re watching, and share the link with a friend or business owner who could benefit from improving their message. And joining us live. If you have any questions, put them in in a comment on whichever channel you’re watching before, after, after the show.

And we’ll get back to you now, a quick word. Most businesses have a list of customers and they’re out there spending a lot of time and money trying to find new customers, while you know totally ignoring their existing customers. If that is the case, and you’re leaving a ton of money on the table, I’m sharing the step by step process and a checklist with simple retention formula. So if you’re leaving money on the table, you have a less than you want to figure out how to start making money today. But the word retention as a comment on whichever channel you’re watching, and I’ll send you the less than a link to the checklist.

So let me do the proper introductions. My friend Michelle here and we are going to start a very interesting conversation. Michelle Mazur, works with brilliant, does brilliant business owners who are shaking things up, but I’m in trouble taking talking about it.

She combines the tools of successful social movements with the qualitative research skills she has earned in her communication PhD to help them craft their powerful, captivating message. author of three books, including the real and newly updated three word rebellion, and featured in Fast Company, entrepreneur and Inc, she knows that speaking about what you do in a clear and captivating way, is the key to reaching the people you could help the most. Welcome, Michelle.

Michelle Mazur  02:57

I’m thrilled to be here. Thank you, Mostafa, for having

Mostafa Hosseini  03:00

great to have you, great to have you. I’m really, really looking forward to the conversation because clarity around your message and your positioning, and in my experience helps you attract the right people makes your marketing a lot easier. Yep. It’s like, once you get this figured out, it’s like you’re, you’re lifting mountains off of your shoulder, because I wouldn’t

Michelle Mazur  03:21

100% agree with that assessment.

Mostafa Hosseini  03:25

So I really look forward to this. So, Michelle, let’s get us started. What is your story? Yeah,

Michelle Mazur  03:31

so I have been running my business in one form or another for about 10 years. I am a former academic. I also spent a little time in corporate and I always say that I’m a little psychologically unemployable. For me after leaving corporate or while I was still in corporate, I started my business. And at first my business was just a blog, I had all of this knowledge in my head about communication, and I needed to get it out into the world where I could actually help people.

My blog was very boring because I was a former academic, you know, Ambien had nothing on my blog for putting you to sleep. Until one day I wrote this super ranty blog post, I was at an event. And there was the speaker who got up in front of the room, and she asked all of us to stand up, and we’re good audience members. So we stood up, she asked us to clap. So we’re clapping. And then she said, You have given me a standing ovation.

And now I must earn it. And I felt so manipulated in that moment. And literally, I was looking around the room and everyone was turned off. And so I spent the time during her presentation writing a post about how not to be a motivational speaker. Like super ranty super edgy. It’s the kind of post you’re afraid to push publish on. But I put it out there. And it was one of the first posts that got some traction. And then I got an email and I was like, I’m in for it in this business. Like, I really ticked someone off. And I opened the email and he was like, Michelle, I loved this post, I’m looking for a new public speaking coach, could you help me out?

And I didn’t have a business model. I didn’t have packages. I mean, I knew how to coach people. But I was like, Sure. And he became my first client in what is now my defunct public speaking, coaching business. But that’s really how the business got its start was a really, really ranty post that led to a client. Love

Mostafa Hosseini  05:55

1. Love it. And you know, I think when you started doing the ranting blog post, that was more of you and a true you came out and people are like, alright, this is more natural. Let me read. It’s interesting. It’s engaging and people. Did you get a lot of engagement on that? Oh,

Michelle Mazur  06:15

I got a ton of engagement on that post. Yeah, people loved it. Yeah. Yeah.

Mostafa Hosseini  06:21

That’s all right. Love it. So what do you do these days? And who do you serve? Yeah.

Michelle Mazur  06:26

So about five years ago, I pivoted my business to actually kind of expand what I was working on, because I was always working on helping people craft their keynote speech and their speaker marketing.

And then I realized, like, Wait, my clients were using what I was creating with them in so many different ways across their business, whether they were creating like a three part launch series from the speech we created, or it would show up in their copy, or it would become like podcast episodes for them, I just saw that my work had more meaning like it could be more useful than just in the speaking arena.

And that’s when I expanded into helping people figure out what the messaging is before it behind their business, so that when they show up to market, when they show up to a podcast interview, when they show up to a sales conversation, they know what to say, in order to persuade people and get them to buy in to their program and their ideas. Love

Mostafa Hosseini  07:34

1. People if you’re watching or listening, you could be the best expert on the planet, you get to have all the best systems and tools and software’s the best team. And if your messaging is not figured out, you’re not going to go very far. So stay tuned and share this with your buddies and friends. So Michelle, what actually is messaging? And why is it important?

Michelle Mazur  08:00

Yeah, so I feel it, especially in online business, there’s a lot of misconceptions about what messaging is, you might hear that it is your ideal client, you might hear that as your tagline or your content plan, or your elevator pitch or I help statement. And it is all of those things.

And more the way I view messaging, it is a comprehensive system that moves across your business, whether you’re doing your marketing, or your PR or your sales, but it is a cohesive strategy to take people who don’t know you at all, don’t know what you do, and move them to work with you. And that is what messaging should be doing for your business. It should be giving you the strategy for how to talk about it and persuade people so that they want to work with you.

Mostafa Hosseini  08:59

Love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. So you talk about the three word rebellion. What in the world is that?

Michelle Mazur  09:13

Yeah, the three word rebellion. And I’ll give you some examples in a second. It is a phrase that you want to be known for. But really what what it does for your business, it is it’s a message for your audience. So what I noticed back in 2016, is that social movements and really successful entrepreneurs do something very similar.

They’re able to create communicate the change they want to create, in just a few words, whether it’s the me to movement, black lives matter or Simon Sinek start with why Mel Robbins five second rule, the four hour workweek. These two groups have that core message that other people can carry forth for them that they have the message that makes people curious that invites them to want to know more. And so in my brain, I was like, Well, isn’t that an interesting pattern? I wonder if I take questions from social movements?

Things like what are you rebelling against? What’s the change you want to create? And had my clients free? Right on it? I was like, could we come up with their start with why message and it worked? And relay that message that three word rebellion is the core message of your business, that you build all your other messaging around?

Mostafa Hosseini  10:44

That is very powerful. So the examples were Black Lives Matter. Start Start With Why, what else?

Michelle Mazur  10:51

The five second rule, everything is figured out double Marie Forleo Tim Ferriss, The Four Hour Workweek, I mean, there’s a lot that happens in politics. So make America great again, build back better. So we see these kind of three word phrases, or three word rebellions. Everywhere, it was funny,

I was actually driving with my husband the other day, and on it was a store, it’s a place where you can you know, rent storage space, and very had a three word rebellion, it was reclaim your space. So these messages are everywhere, and they’re very sticky. They’re very easy for other people to remember. And to talk about.

Mostafa Hosseini  11:38

Love it. And then

Mostafa Hosseini  11:46

tell me about the difference between a company that has this are examples of companies that have this figured out like a before and after type of example. Oh,

Michelle Mazur  11:55

sure. Um, so I’ll tell you some of my clients stories, because these are always my favorite ones. So one of the first three word volumes I created was, she was a marketing consultant, and she does marketing funnels, but she does them in a completely different way. Like, it’s not any of that like bro marketing manipulative stuff, or you’re trying to get all the people in and then get them to buy some tripwire, hers was very much a relationship based. And so she started a podcast called the marketing funnel show.

And I don’t know about you, but I don’t want to listen to a podcast about marketing funnels. I don’t care how brilliant you are of a marketer, like that did not intrigued me. So we went through the three word rebellion process, and we came up with profit without worry, because that’s really what she was doing. She wanted people to have revenue coming into their business, where if life got in your way, you could still have that financial stability.

She really wanted her people to profit without worry. And so when we change the podcast name to that, guess what? The downloads quadrupled? Because people were like, Yeah, I want to I want to profit without worry. How do I do that they were automatically intrigued and wanted to know more. So that’s a great case study of taking something that a message that is super solution focused like I do marketing funnels, this is the marketing funnel show, to really highlighting a result that her right clients really wanted. That’s

Mostafa Hosseini  13:37

like the dream outcome. Basically, profit. Worry, I want to make money. I want to make profits without worrying about it. You got my ears telling me about it. How do I do it? Right.

Michelle Mazur  13:48

Exactly. And that’s what makes it really powerful message. I love

Mostafa Hosseini  13:52

1. I can’t wait to tap into figuring out my three rebellion words. Okay, so what are three things that what are the top few things that this thing does for your business? Just to clarify more? Yeah,

Michelle Mazur  14:11

so a three word rebellion in and of itself, its main job is to capture people’s attention because it is short. It is curiosity provoking because I think start with why for me is that classic example of creating intrigue, where it’s like, you hear oh, start with y. Okay, that sounds like a really good idea. I should start with my y. But what is my Y? I don’t know what my Y is. I better go and watch this TEDx talk. And I had a similar situation with the five second rule.

When I first heard about the five second rule, I was like, what is that? And then I’m googling to find out and I’m watching Mel Robbins TED Talk and I’m buying her book and I’m totally like basically indoctrinating itself in to her are worlds so its main job is to get people’s attention to stop their scroll and make them curious to learn more. Because as you and I both know, like we kind of live in this tension starved universe. So you have to have something that is catchy and makes people think about themselves in order to maintain their maintain, get their attention. And then once you have it, you have your three word rebellion, then it’s about okay, how do I start creating conversations that lead people to work with me?

Mostafa Hosseini  15:39

Wow, capturing attention and being to the point that sparks curiosity and gets people to go out there like, what is that and start Googling? That sounds? More than interesting to me. So let’s talk about the steps that people need to take to find their three word rebellion. What does that process look like?

Michelle Mazur  16:01

Yeah, so the first part of the process is rather fun. So we get to I take my clients through something that I call a free writing process. And it’s also in the book and I have like a little audio mini workshop you can take on this. But the idea behind free writing is to write freely, like don’t stop writing, but to get all of your ideas out of your head and onto paper. Because what I have seen so often with entrepreneurs is they are all up here, they are overthinking it.

And they are not actually taking the time to put it out on paper and being like, Okay, what do we have? What do we have there? So to do that, I have two sets of questions that I asked people that are from those social movements. So the first set of questions are about your rebellion. So thinking like the right one of the free writing prompts I use with clients is just simply What Are you rebelling against, like thinking about the things that tick you off about your industry that make you roll your eyes or a piece of advice?

When you see it on Instagram, you’re like, Ah, I wish people would stop saying, because those questions allow us to figure out what are we trying to break free from what is the change we want to make? And then the second set of questions are the place to get dreamy? And ask yourself, what is the change that I want to create. And that change can be on the individual level for individual clients, it can be on your industry level, maybe you want to be disrupting your industry in some way. Or it can even be on that like societal level.

So you do the free writing you empty your your brain out onto paper, and then you walk away. This is a very important part of the process is walking away and letting go. Step number two, yes, walking away is step number two, just letting it sit letting it simmer, because you’re going to need some distance between when you’re when you’re writing and when you’re actually doing the analysis. Because step three is then analyzing what you wrote.

So this is where my like research skills come in. So I want people and in the book, I talked about this extensively, like going through that free writing, seeing what themes emerge, what interesting turns of phrase you have, is there a word you’re using? Frequently, like I once did this with a client, and she was using the word she used the word joy, like 50 times in her free writing. And I’m like, Well, this word seems important. And she’s like, Oh, I would have never seen. Like, yeah, so you want to start identifying like the words that stand out some action verbs, and just see what’s there there is, are there any interesting turns of phrase, because then you can start kind of drilling down into some of the creative constraints around the three word rebellion.

So step four is like the rules of creating a three word rebellion. And those are it has to be between two to five words. So if you’re asking yourself, the question is just three words, it can be between two to five, no more than five otherwise people can’t remember it. Yeah. It has to be about your audience, your this message isn’t about you, it’s for them, it should be positive. For the most part, there’s a few situations where you might want to have a never not in there, but most of the time, it’s about that vision that you’re creating for your people that results.

And then finally, there are three different types of three word rebellions. So and this and no type is better than any other type. But the three types are the Battlecry. So that starts with a verb inspires action. So Think like, start with why Make America Great Again, those are like very action oriented. Like one of my clients she does, she writes bios, and hers is unleash your epic credential like very like active, then the second type is naming the change or the change agent. So these tend to be a little bit more abstract.

So something like the four hour work week, or the three word rebellion are good examples, you’re really naming that mechanism that creates the change you want to get for your clients.

And then the final type is that declaration or mantra, it’s what you want your clients to remember. So everything is figured out double is a great example. One of my other clients is some Well, she’s not really sobriety coach, she really helps people figure out their relationship with alcohol.

So her three word rebellion is question the drink. So anytime, like, it’s great to get attention, but also it’s a great reminder for her people, like when they’re in those situations, like why am I gonna have this drink? I should question the drink. Wow,

Mostafa Hosseini  21:11

you just dropped value bomb right there. And that was really cool. So So did that get this right does. So the three step process to create your word was number one, free writing process? Number two, is it what are you rebelling against? Is that answer? Yeah.

Michelle Mazur  21:32

Well, the free writing process is part those questions are a part of that free writing process.

Mostafa Hosseini  21:37

Okay, and so what would be then be the second step

Michelle Mazur  21:41

number two was take a break, like to step away from all

Mostafa Hosseini  21:46

Okay, so is this step two? Step two, take a break, take a break. So you write down everything about your business and what you want to do on your idea who you serve what you do for them? Yada yada yada?

Michelle Mazur  21:58

Like, yeah, what are your people? Yes, yes.

Mostafa Hosseini  22:03

And then the three is analyzing your response. Yes. And he has to be two to five words, and you got three types. One was the battle cry. One was naming to change. And another one’s was a declaration or a mantra. Yes, right. All right. What could we work on my three, work rebellion?

Michelle Mazur  22:26

We will try. But since you haven’t done the free writing, it might be really

Mostafa Hosseini  22:30

hard. Alright, let’s get started, shall we? Okay, what do you need to know from me? Or about me? Or what I do? Well,

Michelle Mazur  22:38

what I would when I work with clients, what I’d have them do first is an audience Deep Dive. But we’re not going to have time for that. Because your audience is a very important part of your message because we create it for them. That’s the first thing I would have you do is I would have you free right on the question, What Are you rebelling against?

Mostafa Hosseini  22:55

So here’s let me share what we do. And then what we need to change we’re working on and then hopefully, that will shed some light on it. So I run a call center specializing in follow ups, retention and referrals. The biggest problem that we solve is the fact that most people have a list of customers and prospects.

And they’re out there spending a lot of time and money to find new customers, while totally ignoring their existing customers. That’s the first change. And so the second problem that we saw was the fact that some of these people, they know they should stay in touch with their list, but they don’t have the time, the resources or the manpower to do it. And the third problem is that most people hate to pick up the phone. And they’re afraid of conversations.

So we have a team of trained, friendly agents who do a nurturing approach to stay in touch with a list and do the follow up and do the pick up the phone and have the conversations to get appointments, sales and referrals.

Michelle Mazur  24:07

All right. So that’s your solution. And the free word rebellion is all about the result that a solution creates. So what what are the like, yeah, what is that change that you’re creating for your clients?

Mostafa Hosseini  24:22

So the change is kind of like while everybody’s out there, if you’re spending money on new lead generation, we’re going to be working with our existing list of customers or past customers.

Michelle Mazur  24:32

That’s about to change. That’s not a result. That is still your solution. Okay,

Mostafa Hosseini  24:36

the result as we work on getting well, I’m going to just go over and tell me what you which one will work for this. Results. What do we kind of create is one way to look at is getting appointment extracting appointments and referrals and sales. Without sales, sales is one result. Now another result is where are actually going to do it for them.

So they’re not worried about the follow up piece that they’re that, that they are not doing. Another result is like the fact that they’re leaving money on the table and customers are falling through the cracks, and we will actually retract and you know, revive all of that for them.

Michelle Mazur  25:18

Okay, so let’s drill into this a little bit deeper, because it’s still,

Mostafa Hosseini  25:26

I mean, not quite there yet.

Michelle Mazur  25:28

Yeah, well, I mean, there’s really nothing, it’s still really focused on you what your business does, like the solution. So if we’re going to take something like the idea that they don’t have to make these calls, what does that what change in their business does that create for them, like not having to worry about these doing these calls?

Mostafa Hosseini  25:52

So one thing that I’ve tested is follow up without picking up the phone. Okay. And, basically is like, it’s a done for you service. And we will do the follow up and you don’t have to be afraid of picking up the phone or doing it.

Michelle Mazur  26:15

Okay, so you’re helping them alleviate fear? Or getting rid of fear?

Mostafa Hosseini  26:21

Yeah, because they don’t have to do it.

Michelle Mazur  26:23

Okay, anything else?

Mostafa Hosseini  26:27

What else improving improving their relationships with their customers. So the customers are happier. And the customers are looked after. So another result that kind of that will produce for them is kind of terms of monetary results is revenue, recurring revenue, higher profits? What else does it do?

Michelle Mazur  26:54

Yeah, what does a happy customer do for a business?

Mostafa Hosseini  26:57

Referrals? Hmm. They talk about it

Mostafa Hosseini  27:07

they, they become super fans or? Yeah.

Michelle Mazur  27:14

Okay. So I mean, so yeah, so one area that you could explore for three word rebellion is this idea around, creating that connection that creates those, like super fans isn’t the right word, but that, you know, makes people because I feel like what you’re doing is like your service allows business owners to make their people feel seen cared for valued. Like all of the things that we know we need to be doing in our business, but we never have time.

Right? And then that, that kind of emotional piece. That connection piece then leads to like, great, more sales, more revenue, better word of mouth, more brand awareness, all of those cool things. But I feel like there might be a three word rebellion in that kind of emotional connection piece. And, you know, and also thinking about, like, the fear piece as well, like, because if people don’t, I mean, I hate talking on the phone, too. Like I just you’re

Mostafa Hosseini  28:23

not alone. Yeah, that’s a big problem. Yeah, like

Michelle Mazur  28:27

the thought about picking up the phone and following up with someone or even like calling to make a dentist appointment. I hate it like I hate it. So yeah, like I think there could also be something because you said something about follow up without picking up the phone. There might be something in that area too about like you don’t have to do the thing you hate.

Right but but saying it in a different way. So those are two different areas that you could explore where three word rebellion would be and where I would probably like if I was working with you where I’d want to take you deeper into to figure out like what’s in there and tease out those exact words. Okay,

Mostafa Hosseini  29:13

so in your views would like working on the being seen devalued and the connection piece being more important, or the follow up piece without the fear of picking up phone? Or?

Michelle Mazur  29:30

Yeah, well, I feel like the follow up without picking up the phone is kind of getting to that like profit without worry, right? Where? Because what I realized with working with Michelle is that like her people were worrywarts, right like they just were worried about the business and the business making enough revenue all of the time.

So you might be able to do something like not that it’s a formula but something in that area where it’s like okay, we’re gonna get rid of it. This thing that you dread, while also bringing in this great thing into your business. Okay,

Mostafa Hosseini  30:07

so how do I go about, say which one of these I should focus on? Is? Would it be a matter of testing? Or was? Would there be like a formula that I would have to? Yeah,

Michelle Mazur  30:15

I mean, it is partially testing. So like if we were doing this work, and let’s say we came up with like two great three word rebellions, one of the one things I would have you do is run it by like, two or three of your best clients, like the clients you love that you want to work with forever and ever. And just ask them like, Hey, I’m doing this messaging project, which one of these resonates with you and just kind of getting some feedback from them?

Because they’re the people who already know your business and love your business, and you want to know what resonates with them, if that would draw them in. The other thing is always like, run it by some business best friends, the ones who tell you the truth, not the ones who are like, everything you do is great. rainbows and unicorns, and it’s like, no, you want the ones who are like, no, that sucks. I don’t get it. Or it’s yeah. Oh, oh, okay, I can see how that would be good. So you really want the people who will give you that discerning eye towards your business and your message.

Mostafa Hosseini  31:22

So as I’m looking at this the follow up so the connection being valued and being seen with the, with our customers, customers is something that do I want to focus for? What might my customer thinks and worries about or something about their customer?

Michelle Mazur  31:43

You want the change for your customer? Right? So the

Mostafa Hosseini  31:48

follow up without picking up the phone? Is something more towards geared towards my customer?

Michelle Mazur  31:52

Yes, yes.

Mostafa Hosseini  31:56

Okay. What if we were we wanted to formulate something around the the like utopia, we’re talking about hate to pick up the phone hate to have conversations? Or the fear that would be what would what do you think we should? How we should I should, how should I formulate that?

Michelle Mazur  32:18

Yeah, I mean, that also could kind of be in that without message, right? Like build customer relationships without being socially awkward. That’s terrible. You know, follow up without the awkwardness. I don’t know something along those lines, where it’s like, you’re really hinting towards that getting rid of that fear that worry. They have that awkwardness, really kind of diving into, like, yeah, they hate it. But why do they hate it so much?

Mostafa Hosseini  32:57

Okay, about fearless follow up.

Michelle Mazur  33:00

That’s better. in the right direction. Fearless follow up. Yeah, that could work.

Mostafa Hosseini  33:11

All right. It’s kind of rebelling against all the fear. And all the

Michelle Mazur  33:18

anxiety had

Mostafa Hosseini  33:19

dragged me around that. Other thing, where it’s like, what were Chen did rebelling against as well, while most of the market is doing cold calling and advertising. We’re on this side doing warm and hot calling. Yeah,

Michelle Mazur  33:38

yeah. So yours is, I mean, that goes back to kind of that relationship theme. It’s really about building the relationships with the people you already have nurturing those relationships. So that could be the other kind of direction to explore that more, you know, like, pretty much it’s like, well, and I see this all the time in business as well, like people have all of these, you know, 5000 3000, even 200 people on their email list, and they’re like, I don’t have any leads. And you’re like, is that really true? It seems like you have 200 people sitting around there that you’re not really doing anything. Right? Right. So they spent way too much time trying to find new people instead of cultivating the relationships that they should have with their current with their current people who already have opted in and said, Hey, I like you. I think you have the problem. I think I have, I have the problem that you could possibly solve for me, but it’s like we forget about those people if they don’t buy right away, and most people don’t buy right away, right. True.

Mostafa Hosseini  34:56

True, most people well, 80% of transactions happen have an 18 month. first point of contact?

Michelle Mazur  35:05

Yeah, 18 months. That’s that’s a long time

Mostafa Hosseini  35:09

99.9% of businesses don’t follow up or stay in touch for 18 months, not not even three months, nevermind 18 months. And so, no, I’m serious. Yeah,

Michelle Mazur  35:21

no, I I’m not surprised at all. But I think it’s like, we’ve there’s like, I mean, in the industry, there’s all this messaging around like, oh, well, you’ll get new leads, and they’ll immediately sign up with you, like, get clients, but now get clients fast. And it’s like, that’s not really how it necessarily works. Yes, some people, there’ll be a small percentage that converts right away, but the vast majority aren’t going to be ready to work with you yet. Right?

Mostafa Hosseini  35:51

So I could see how to how identifying these like three word, phrase or rebellion, and condensing everything down and simplifying, it would help us get really clear, with the message, build a tribe build a community around it. And it does a lot of good, actually, a lot of good. You could like create a movement around it, basically. Yeah,

Michelle Mazur  36:20

yeah. And that’s really what I want for my for the people I work with the people who read the book is to think about what is it that you’re trying to do beyond the business like for those clients? What does that impact? What is that ripple effect that you are creating, and then having a message that speaks to that and gets people’s attention and gets them excited about the work you’re doing? So that they want to talk about it?

Right, it’s great for word of mouth, because then all of a sudden, other people talk about it. Like, I’ve even seen this in my own business where I’ll get a referral. And they’ll be like, Oh, my coach just loves you. And I’m like, Oh, great, who’s your coach, and I don’t know the person. I’ve never had a conversation with the person don’t know their name. But they read the book, they love the message. And now they refer it to other people. And that’s, that’s really the power of having a three word or falling in. Love

Mostafa Hosseini  37:19

1. So we talked about the battle cry, and naming the change, and a declaration or a mantra, if I’m like trying to pick one. How would you approach which one I should focus on here?

Michelle Mazur  37:37

Oh, that is a good question. Because it kind of it depends on the words that you’re using

Mostafa Hosseini  37:43

a bit have anything to do with my personality?

Michelle Mazur  37:48

Sometimes it does, sometimes it just has to do with like the word choice. Like I have clients who tend to be I don’t want to say they’re abstract, but they are like big kind of philosophical thinkers. And so that naming the change one, because it is a little bit more abstract tends to be a good fit for that type of person. I have people who are really just like, No, I want to get down to business, I want to take action, and then that battlecry becomes more of a better fit for that type of business.

And then like the people, I feel like a lot of my coaches ended up with declarations and slash mantras, because they’re in that more supportive, ongoing relationship with people. So it it, it depends, it depends on the words, but also it depends on the person and their personality. Because literally, you can’t go wrong with any three with any of those.

But it’s really picking something that suits you. And also something that’s easy for you to like, work into conversation with others because it needs to be useful and repeatable for you. So that’s the other thing. Like, if somebody feels like if I’m working on one and it feels a little awkward, then I’m like, let’s keep going. Let’s try something else.

Mostafa Hosseini  39:10

Yeah, like personally, I’m more of a rebellion. I am not a big fan of status quo. Like that’s why we’re like because just because everybody’s on Facebook and YouTube and this and that doesn’t mean that I have to be there that’s fine and easy you know, comfortable thing that we could do that it’s like sitting right in front of me but because everyone else is out there, you know, doesn’t mean that I necessarily have to follow them.

Michelle Mazur  39:37

Mm hmm. Right? Yeah. So yeah, you might be more of a battle cry kind of a guy. You know, it’s always funny to me is when I’m working with someone, I’ll be like, Oh, I think they’re going to end up with a battle cry. Like I just kind of feel that and then I’m wrong.

Mostafa Hosseini  39:55

What were some examples of the batter battle cry again.

Michelle Mazur  39:58

I’m sorry. Start With Why is a good example. Unleash your epic credential make America great again. So anything so it really starts with that powerful action verb.

Mostafa Hosseini  40:14

All right, good. All right. So, Robert, I’m going to spend some more time on this because I thought that I’ve spent enough time on my on my message, but apparently not.

Michelle Mazur  40:26

Messaging is one of those things that we are always kind of working on finding, right, always working on it.

Mostafa Hosseini  40:34

So how could this whole process eliminate your competition and put your life in a category of one? Yes, one conversation that I could talk about for a good day and a half? Yeah,

Michelle Mazur  40:47

I love this question. Because, really, when we use our words, we can really position ourselves and differentiate ourselves in our industry. So for example, I’m just going to use my industry as messaging, there are all of these people out there talking about Magnetic Messaging, and I hate that message. But if you go to Instagram, and you search, Magnetic Messaging, you will get hundreds of posts from different business owners teaching you about Magnetic Messaging.

So what happens is, basically all of those people are fighting for the same bit of the marketplace, all they’re just fighting for the people who are looking for a Magnetic Message. Whereas like, I have the three word rebellion, that is my messaging framework. So I have my own little place in the market that I’ve carved out that I’m the only place you can get three word rebellions. And then my colleague, Tamsin Webster, she has the red thread method. So she has her own little place in the marketplace of messaging.

And what’s really cool is that when you have your own little place, you are the only game in town because if you want to three word rebellion, you have to come to me, you can go to a million different people to get a Magnetic Message, three word rebellion, that is me, like only me. Same with like the red thread. So it’s a really cool way to set yourself apart from your industry and say, like, this is the thing that I am known for, and you come to me for this thing, and only me for this.

So it really does eliminate your competition, because even though there’s a lot of people who do messaging, I look at them as colleagues. Because the way my approach is so radically different and how I talk about it. So that’s really what the power of messaging can do for you is just like, make your own little unique place and give you a way to talk about it and let people come to you that resonate with that message.

Mostafa Hosseini  42:58

Fantastic. Yeah. I mean, the concept of concept of figuring out a way to eliminate your competition and be in that category of one where you have no competition. Yes, is what I heard and learned about back in 2016, or 17, from Peter Thiel, when I read his book zero to one. Oh, okay. Well, you said something along the lines of competition is for losers?

Michelle Mazur  43:26

Of course he did. Right.

Mostafa Hosseini  43:27

And the thing is, if you’re in a place where there’s a ton of competition, it’s gonna be tough. Your odds are, you’re probably going to lose.

Michelle Mazur  43:37

Well, and you’re competing on price, too, right? Yeah. And

Mostafa Hosseini  43:42

there’s already you’re like, you’re in a wolf pit, and you’re trying to compete against already established companies and people who are experts, and you’re like, Oh, this is $100 billion. Industry we only need 1% of is like buddy Good luck getting 1% of that, that industry. All right. So if you’ve like going through this process to get to eliminate competition and become enjoining the category of one club Yes. Definitely worth looking into.

Michelle Mazur  44:15

Yeah, yeah. Because I see this with my coaches all the time because I feel like coaching they always like live your best life align with your purpose. Meanwhile, you have Mel Robbins, you know, floating out there talking about the five second rule and the high five habit and and like she’s really she’s so successful because she has carved out her own piece of the market.

Mostafa Hosseini  44:40

Interesting.

Mostafa Hosseini  44:47

Are there any other good examples of these? I know we’ve talked about a whole bunch of good exam. Are there any other examples that come to mind that?

Michelle Mazur  44:59

I’m not sure eat my

Mostafa Hosseini  45:04

lunch already. Are there any other good ones that you’re like, This is a good one. Oh, love to see like or more examples of before and afters like, here’s a person up in the air that had a hard time selling the services. And after they changed, it was like, there is a line. Yeah,

Michelle Mazur  45:22

so one of my clients, her name is Cassie Christopher. And she’s been an amazing example because she’s a registered dietician. And before we were working together, she had a real tough time, like, selling her services selling her program to help people basically overcome emotional eating. And because she was an expert, and a dietitian, she was talking about things like your cortisol levels, like we got to get your cortisol levels down.

And she was also talking about emotional eating. But the problem was, is like her people didn’t understand that they had a cortisol problem. They didn’t. They didn’t, they don’t know what emotional eating was. So she was just kind of missing the mark, she was attracting a lot of other experts who really liked her stuff. She wasn’t attracting the people she wanted to help. So when we did the three word rebellion, process, a what we realized about her work and her people in the result is that she was giving her people the courage to trust and courage to trust became her three word rebellion, the courage to trust yourself around food, the courage to trust your body, that you know that it’s going to tell you what it needs to tell you the courage to trust yourself around food that you’re not going to just over eat.

So her work is really about cultivating that trust. And so since we’ve done this work, and she has been leading with this courage to trust method, and this idea behind like one of her supporting messages is about eating for joy, instead of eating to seek joy. Her business has radically changed, like she’s able to do a guest blog, get a ton of qualified leads, who are like, oh, yeah, I really want this, like, I want this change.

And she gets on sales conversations, and they are prepared and ready to work with her. Because before she was wasting a ton of time talking to people who were not at all ready to work with her. Yeah. And now she has these people who like the message, like what she’s about no other dietitian is talking about the courage to trust her talking about like, lose weight. So she really does get the right people.

Mostafa Hosseini  47:39

So I had one of my students in my courses, and I think we kind of worked on this. And it’s on this emotional eating piece. So I have emotion, three word rebellion for her. Taught me if this would this would work. Stop emotional eating.

Michelle Mazur  47:56

No, because they don’t know what emotional eating is. Especially

Mostafa Hosseini  47:59

when I was when I heard it. Because I was emotional eating like like a madman.

Michelle Mazur  48:05

But it’s still talking to the problem, not the change, right? Stop emotional eating, then what? So then what answers the question, right? So Kelsey could have said, Stop emotional eating, develop the courage to trust your body, yourself, food, etc. So that’s the difference. It’s this more positive message about the change instead of like, just stop. Like, that’s probably if you could just stop. But that’s the hard part. What

Mostafa Hosseini  48:34

was her three word thing? Courage

Michelle Mazur  48:37

to trust? Courage

Mostafa Hosseini  48:39

to trust? Love? Hmm. Awesome. Awesome. So here’s a question what stage of business does having a conscious Adele is asking, Does does have any conscious messaging become important? How many clients or revenue should you be doing?

Michelle Mazur  48:52

Okay, that’s a great question. So number one, you want to have a proven offer. So you want to have an offer that people have gone through, you’ve gotten great results from so you might be a year into business, you might be two years into business. You might be five years into business, but it’s that proven offer. It’s you’re like, Okay, I have something and it works. And now you want to reach more people because so far your business has been relying on word of mouth marketing, or Yeah, word of mouth referrals and your marketing hasn’t really worked up to this point.

And the other symptom I also see is that these people tend to be great on sales conversations. If they can get a person on the phone. That person wants to work with them, but it’s getting the people on the phone, that marketing piece that actually leads to that call is the issue. So it is that once you have that proven offer you really want to and you and your co confident you love the offer you love delivering it, I think that’s an important part, then you really want to start working on the messaging before you do marketing.

Because if you don’t know what to say your marketing is not going to be effective, and it’s going to be really labor for some to do. So

Mostafa Hosseini  50:16

what I would say figuring this out in the earliest stages of a business, would you advise that would you go against it based on what you just said, um,

Michelle Mazur  50:23

if you are completely new, still trying to figure out like what your niche is and what you’re offering, like, maybe you’re doing one off coaching sessions, or, you know, you’re trying out different programs, but you’re not sure what your what you’re going actually like delivering than that is way too soon. It’s really, when you’re a bit more established. I mean, most of my clients that I work with, I mean, they tend to be thought, three to 10 years in business by the time they kind of settle into this.

Mostafa Hosseini  50:58

Got it. Fantastic. Fantastic. Michelle, could you tell us about your gift? Mini audio workshop?

Michelle Mazur  51:08

Yes. So I have if you want a taste of the three word rebellion, and to see what that’s like and get started creating your one of a kind message, you can go to three word rebellion.com. And get the mini audio workshop. It’s delivered in a private podcast feed. So it’s very convenient to listen to. And it takes you through the steps of creating your three word rebellion.

Mostafa Hosseini  51:33

Nice. Love it. So gang, the link is in the comments. On social and it’s in the comments of the show. And if you’re watching or listening on the podcast, it will be a link on the podcast so you can listen or get access to the three word regret low rebellion workshop. The link is number three, like three number three, word rebellion.com. That’s it. Three word rebellion.com. And three is not spelled out. It’s actually number three, if you’re watching or listening. Even if

Michelle Mazur  52:05

you do the number three, you’ll get to the same site.

Mostafa Hosseini  52:10

Here at both domains. Yeah, I did. Important. Fantastic. All right. So Michelle, can I ask you some personal questions? Sure. All right. So what is something new that you have tried recently, big or small?

Michelle Mazur  52:26

It was something new that I’ve tried recently. We just got back from vacation. So I’m like I’m surely I did something. Oh, I tried to date Sheikh for the first time we were in Palm Springs. And we went out to do a date shake. So the fruit the date, they make it into two date crystals. And then they blend it with milk and ice cream and make these like really rich. It’s a little bit like a chocolate caramel flavor milkshake. It was really good. So it was fun to visit a date farm. All

Mostafa Hosseini  53:02

right, nice. Nice. Love it. Love it. Love it. So what are your top two or three favorite books of all time?

Michelle Mazur  53:15

How does always so hard for me? All right, so I’m gonna go with since it’s on my desk, Robert channel Dinis influence. This is great. It’s a great read about the art of persuasion, especially if you don’t want to be manipulative. But it’s a book I used to teach from. And I love it. All also, oh my gosh, I just read this amazing book by Jamie Barron called radical self love.

But she’s she’s in she’s talking about in this book about how your life is really your own, and how you should define success for yourself instead of listening to all the marketing messages about what success looks like. So that is a beautiful, beautiful book that I love. And then I’m going to give you one fiction book because I read a lot of fiction. But this book just kind of stuck with me. It’s called the midnight library by Matthew Haeg.

And the whole premise of this book is this woman is hanging in between life and death. And she’s gets to go through all the different versions of her life to see where she fits in the most because she never felt felt like she fit into her life. So she gets to explain it is like she gets to be a rock star, she gets to be a mom and she gets to have like all of these be like a marine biologist in the ant in the Arctic. So she has all of these experiences and it’s a really, really stuck with me thinking about like how our lives kind of branch in these different directions. So it’s an excellent read.

Mostafa Hosseini  54:55

Awesome, so the books gang or our influence, radical self love and midnight library. I’m Matthew heck. So what’s one advice that made a massive impact or changing your life.

Michelle Mazur  55:11

So I will focus on the best business advice I ever got. And it came from my husband. So my husband used to own video stores like back in the late 80s, and 90s. And he told me early on that whatever you do in your business now pays off three to six months from now. And that I have found that too, over and over again, that if you do, like, we have to think about our businesses for the long term.

And change is about the long term. So wow, that that piece of advice always stuck with me. That

Mostafa Hosseini  55:48

is a profound piece of advice. Whatever you work on now pays off three to six months from now, that’s very true. Yes.

Michelle Mazur  55:55

We don’t want it to be true, but it is.

Mostafa Hosseini  56:00

Or I mean, at least 80 or 90% of it will pay off in three. And the problem is like people are looking for things now. So now is six months ago, based on that. Yeah,

Michelle Mazur  56:15

exactly. Like what were you doing six months ago? And you’re seeing the results of that now? Yeah,

Mostafa Hosseini  56:19

like, seeds. It’s like a farming process, basically. Yep, exactly. 100%. Now, if you had an ad on Facebook, or Google, that anyone on the web around the world could see your message. What would your message be?

Michelle Mazur  56:43

I think it would just simply be be a category of one.

Mostafa Hosseini  56:49

What is the story behind that? I feel like there’s a story there.

Michelle Mazur  56:55

Yeah, well, for me, I feel like there are so many people trying to fit you into this like cookie cutter box. This blueprints especially in business, like this is how you do your business. Like you have to do these things. You have to be on Facebook, you have to want to like a seven figure course business, you have to have these tiny offers and have a Facebook funnel. And I just, I feel like if you’re building your business like everyone else, that that’s never going to serve you you’re always better going your own direction, like, you know, and it doesn’t mean just being like, oh, all of that stuff sucks.

It means like, okay, yeah, you can learn about those things, but take what works for you. And apply that and then change the rest or jettison the rest like you don’t like you don’t have to do everything. There’s like take the good ideas, the gems that work, and then really blaze your own path, create your own category, you know, your own unique self in a world that tells you that everybody needs to make a million dollars 100%

Mostafa Hosseini  58:02

Every time I tried to copy someone else, it failed miserably for me. Because it’s not, you know, it was to the tune of six or seven figures, multiple six, seven figures. And so yeah, especially if it doesn’t resonate, and if it doesn’t feel good.

Michelle Mazur  58:26

Exactly. Right. Exactly. Well, Michelle, this

Mostafa Hosseini  58:28

has been an absolutely amazing conversation. I certainly got a lot out of it. And I really appreciate your you sharing your wisdom and coaching me live on my channel. And is there anything that you would like to add or talk about that we didn’t get a chance to talk about, you

Michelle Mazur  58:46

know, I feel like we gave people a lot to think about and to chew on. So that is what I’m here for. Fantastic

Mostafa Hosseini  58:52

gang, if you’re watching or listening later and go to three word rebellion.com, get a hold of Michelle, figure out this three word rebellion piece for your message for your businesses for your message. And in my experience when you simplify this process, when you figure out the core of your message and and who you serve and what you do for them and the promise and the and the big message, right? Like for our work with weak Black Lives Matter.

Make America great again and the rest of it, you create a movement. You create a tribe, you create a community that people feel attached to, and they have that feeling of belonging to your group to you and to your services. Once you create that it’s an extremely powerful piece and and it’s a it’s an extremely powerful tool to have for your business and for you and everything else becomes a lot easier and I warn you there is most likely a testing process like a three to six month At least would you agree like, just like what you said three to six months ago the results again are tested. Maybe the first one is not going to work maybe well, you never know. Yeah,

Michelle Mazur  1:00:08

yeah, I mean, usually with three word rebellions you can tell pretty easily like like the example I gave with Cassie like we finished working together like two months ago and she’s seen great results already because just yeah cuz she’s on the spot she’s been really focused and it was just perfect for her but you know, she did do some of that testing like of like asking people what they thought and getting some feedback from our clients. Yeah.

Mostafa Hosseini  1:00:35

I love it. So as usual, if you liked and enjoyed this conversation, please make your your short you like, comment what you got the most out of it, what you found what you what stood out the most for you or if there were any tips that you’re going to take and run with it and test it. And if you know other friends who could benefit from this conversation, either tag them or send them the link and or send them Michels link that we weren’t rebellion comm and go from there.

And thank you for joining us. If you have any questions, comments, feedback, whatever as a comment below, and we will get back to you. Thank you for joining us. My name is Mostafa Hosseini. Thank you Michelle. Thank you for joining us and we will see you next week. Bye now.