Selling with Confidence with Jen Gitomer – ep 105

Mostafa Hosseini  00:03

Welcome to daily confidence for entrepreneurs. In this episode we’re going over how to prepare for a sales call. How does confidence play a role in selling and how you can develop your confidence? How do we react when someone says no to you and you will watch yours truly get exposed and coached by Jen Gitomer. My guest today is Jan Gitomer. Welcome, Jen.

Jen Gitomer  00:28

Thank you. Good to see you. And

Mostafa Hosseini  00:31

we’re talking about selling with confidence, which is an important thing. A lot of people lack confidence in sales. And we’re going to talk about that today. It’s going to be an interesting conversation. Now. You know how a lot of people leave, leave money on the table multiple six or seven figures, because they don’t do their follow ups that they’re supposed to.

Yes, I have put together a list a checklist on the blueprint to simple follow up formula on how to fix your follow up problem. So if you wanted that, put the word if you’re watching or listening, put the word follow up as a comment on whichever channel you’re watching. And we’ll send you the link to download the checklist now. Let me do it a proper introduction to John Gitomer and we’re going to dive into a very interesting conversation and I really look forward to this.

 Jen Gitomer is obsessed with helping service based professionals, coaches and entrepreneurs make more money. After selling millions of dollars throughout her 15 plus years career in sales and growing three businesses. She knows exactly what it takes to grow your business from surviving to thriving. Jennifer co hosts the the sell or die podcast with her husband, Jeff Gitomer and host the breakthrough babe podcast herself.

She has written a best selling book called sales in a New York minute containing 212 pages of real world easy to implement sales strategies. Her mission is to help entrepreneurs create time and financial freedom. In her spare time, you’ll find Jen playing tennis or hanging out with her husband, stepdaughter and Cavalier King Charles children and her family. Welcome, Jen.

Jen Gitomer  02:33

Thank you. It’s a pleasure to be here.

Mostafa Hosseini  02:35

Great to have you. How’s your day so far?

Jen Gitomer  02:38

So far, so good, but even better now that we’re hanging out and doing this live?

Mostafa Hosseini  02:43

Likewise, likewise, I’m worried about our Eugen. At

Jen Gitomer  02:48

the moment I am in outside of Charleston, South Carolina at one of the beaches here in the low country.

Mostafa Hosseini  02:55

Loving and what’s the weather like?

Jen Gitomer  02:57

Well, today is rainy and gloomy, which makes for a beautiful day on the beach, believe it or not.

Mostafa Hosseini  03:05

So it’s not too hot. No,

Jen Gitomer  03:07

no, it’s not. It’s like 85 today.

Mostafa Hosseini  03:09

Nice. Nice. Nice. So let’s dive into it. Jen, what is your story?

Jen Gitomer  03:17

I started selling at the age of five. Not even realizing that that was selling I was bored and going to the supermarket every weekend with my grandma. So I would sit outside and make bracelets and then people would start buying them for me. And I learned a really valuable lesson. At age five, which was people didn’t want my stuff. They wanted their stuff, meaning if I thought blue and pink were really cute together. But they wanted orange and purple because that was their team color. It didn’t matter that I thought blue and pink were cute.

You know, what mattered was what they thought, the customers perception. And so I learned that at a very young age, you have to sell what they want or what they feel they need. And so people would give me a few dollars and then I’d come back the next week with their bracelet made ready to go and then just had all this confidence from selling because I just I had this association that if you offer something that someone wants, they’ll buy it.

And I made that assumption because it happened to me. I had evidence of it. And so I progressed throughout my career. I sold Cutco knives. I worked for an educational software company for six and a half years, I ran a program in my college that was very heavily revolved around sales, and eventually went out on my own to start my own business helping salespeople and entrepreneurs all over the world because at the company I was with for six and a half years, I was impacting, you know, the 100 150 people in the sales division.

But what I really wanted to do was be able to help millions of people all over and so then that’s when I wrote this book sales in New York. In it, and started my journey into entrepreneurship. And that was 2013. So I’ve been doing this for quite some time now.

Mostafa Hosseini  05:09

Now I see why two to 12. Is there to 12 is the area code for New York, right? Yes. Okay. Got it. So that’s a very interesting story. I’m selling bracelets at age of where you’re literally five years old, and you’re making insulin them.

Jen Gitomer  05:26

Yeah. Like I would set up a little sidewalk or outside the supermarket. And they set

Mostafa Hosseini  05:36

up and you just set them all the bracelets and people buy them,

Jen Gitomer  05:39

like Girl Scouts, but I was young and my grandma would be grocery shopping and I would be making bracelets and selling them.

Mostafa Hosseini  05:46

All my you were not shy to do it. You know,

Jen Gitomer  05:51

I It’s surprising. I was not people would come over to me and asked me what was going on. And I would say, I can make you a bracelet, give me money.

Mostafa Hosseini  06:01

You’re gonna make it like a specific amount. You’re just like giving money. I

Jen Gitomer  06:04

think it was like four or five bucks. I don’t really remember. It wasn’t like, you know, I wasn’t asking for the farm. I was just, you know, interesting.

Mostafa Hosseini  06:10

Because I’ve been, I’ve been trying to get my son who is six years old to go sell lemonade in front of our garage. And he’s like, nope, not doing it. So I’ve been trying to convince him to do it. Well,

Jen Gitomer  06:26

purpose, if you want something that you won’t give him, but he knows he can get it by making money. He might want to sell that. Oh, you

Mostafa Hosseini  06:35

know what, he wants a PlayStation, I could probably get him to do that. Cuz he loves me loves saving money. He has like $600 to his name. And sometimes I’m like, you’re richer than I am on some days. And, and then what’s it called, but I tried to tell him to convince him to go sell so he can make more money he’s like, but I already have $600 I’m like, that didn’t work.

And so I’m gonna play the PlayStation game and see if enough lemonades to go by PlayStation. Perfect before the summer is over. So. But that’s a great point, like to your point, give them what they want. And and I think the law they’re under lesson for me right now is that if the first thing that I offered, he didn’t want it, I could probably go back and make another offer. For it right, that runs a follow up business.

Jen Gitomer  07:35

Offer and even ask what do you want? Right? Yeah.

Mostafa Hosseini  07:39

Yeah, I can ask. That’s, that’s a another, you know, I made another mistake over the weekend with him. And that was we went camping. And we were just like, half an hour away from our house. And I assumed that he wanted his bike I draw without asking him, I drove back to the house, because I saw a bunch of other kids drive riding their bikes. I’m like, he probably wants his bike to drove back to the house, took his bike there.

And he didn’t even care that the bike was there. And I’m like, oh, no, I probably should have asked him before driving for an hour and a half. I was trying to surprise him. But you know, oh, going back to the Ask for what they want. Yeah. That would be that would be useful. So what do you do these days? And who do you serve? So

Jen Gitomer  08:30

I serve entrepreneurs, mostly with service based businesses, coaches, course creators, people selling things online, like services like copywriting, photography, that kind of stuff. Branding, social media, and I help them make more money. It’s really that simple. We look at what’s getting in the way of making the money you deserve. And then oftentimes, it’s money mindset. Sometimes it’s sales strategy. Sometimes it’s a combination of both. And we really dig in and assess the problem, and then go after it.

Mostafa Hosseini  09:10

For sure, for sure. Again, if you’re watching or listening to the show right now, feel free to put in any questions or comments that you have about sales and confidence.

If you have any questions for Jen or me, put it in there. And we’ll do our best to cover your questions. And so, love what you’re doing and with respect to sales and helping people make more money, that is, I mean, that’s the number one thing that I guess people need these days is to sell more and make more money. That’s why we’re all in business right now.

09:41

That’s right.

Mostafa Hosseini  09:47

Let me start with the lack of confidence because that’s what we do. Why do you think people let’s start with this? Why do people hate to sell? What’s the deal with that?

09:58

Well, I’ll

Jen Gitomer  10:01

a lot of people have had a negative experience with someone else who sold. And that person that they were interacting with maybe came off as salesy maybe lied about what it is that they were offering, they said something was better than it actually was, or whatever it may be.

And they’re taking, they’re allowing, oftentimes that negative experience that they had with someone else who was maybe not as well intentioned as they are, to impact their outcome. So, you know, if that it doesn’t make sense, right, when you think about it logically, like I had this bad experience when I was 16, with a salesperson in a boutique, but if that meant I never sold again, or then like, how many people would I have not been able to impact because I didn’t put my offer out there. I think another thing that happens is, depending on what you’re selling, sometimes it’s easier to sell someone else’s stuff than your own stuff, if you’re a personal brand business.

Because there’s a confidence factor when you’re a personal brand business that now you’re selling yourself, you’re selling your name, you’re selling your reputation you’re selling the tangible outcomes that you can create for someone else. And you’re like, that’s, you have to have a lot of confidence in order to to put it out there.

Mostafa Hosseini  11:29

For sure, for sure.

Mostafa Hosseini  11:33

I like your comment about like starting with someone else’s products, like if you’re not comfortable selling your own, because it’s easier to sell someone else’s product, especially if if it’s stablished. They’ve got the pricing, the packaging, description, the whole thing, figure it out, they give you the training, you’re going there and you kind of mastered a sales skill. And then you go into your own business and do your do your sales, like easier and faster. That’s that’s the route that I took, I

Jen Gitomer  12:03

guess. Yeah, and meet you. I think, you know, there’s, at least when I got older, and there’s there’s something that there’s a key ingredient that plays a direct role into confidence. And that is belief. And so when I was selling Cutco knives, and have you ever been sold, has anyone ever tried to sell you Cutco knives? A lot. Okay, these are the best knives on the planet. I haven’t sold them in over two decades.

And I still believe that they’re the best knives on the planet. They are sharper than most knives, which actually means you have less of a chance of hurting yourself because you don’t like push really hard, you have more precision with what you’re doing. They have a forever guarantee, they’ll be around forever, I can give you a million reasons why they’re the best in my mind, right? That belief is so deep that Two decades later, I’m still telling you that and I make no commission, no money from them whatsoever. So you have to ask yourself, How deep is your belief in your product or service?

How deep is your belief in whatever it is you’re selling, because that belief is what gets transferred in every conversation. And it’s not something you show up and say, Hey, I believe in this thing. So I think you should buy it that that belief is there’s a silent transfer, and either gets transferred, because you have that strong belief, or it doesn’t get transferred. And when it doesn’t get transferred, comes off as though you have no confidence or not a lot of confidence in the product or service.

If the confidence isn’t there, why would someone buy? Right? So I believe that I believe that belief is one of the key ingredients to beginning to develop that confidence in whatever it is you’re selling.

Mostafa Hosseini  13:56

Okay, so again, if you’re watching or listening, a question that you could actually write down right now and perhaps answer today is how deep is my belief in my product or service? And start answering that question and write as much as possible because that one piece is gonna drive. It’s going to be the foundation for your sales and marketing. Right? I’m actually going to do this today. So the stuff that I talked about, I’m going to do it today. So

Jen Gitomer  14:23

low at the next level of that. Absolutely. Okay, so the first part is how deep is my belief in my product or service? The second piece is, how deep is your belief in yourself. So once you or your company, right, once you deliver on that product or service, how deep is your belief, let’s say you’re going to be their contact person and your ability to serve them, or your company’s ability to serve them if it’s being handed off to someone else, because that’s going to play a role in this silent communication transfer as well.

And then how much do you believe that the customer More is better off having purchased from you. So after they buy, how much do you believe that they’re better off? Because that that’s going to make the difference. If you believe that they’re better off, then you’re going to do everything in your power to help them buy. But if you don’t believe that they’re going to be better off. What’s the point? It’s going to feel sleazy salesy icky, uncomfortable. And that’s why people don’t sell when they don’t believe or don’t have that deep belief that the customer is better off? Absolutely.

Mostafa Hosseini  15:34

So couple more questions. How deep is my belief in myself? And that could I guess to me, it could cover a variety of questions about my ability about my mindset about around sales and and the rest of it.

And then how much are they better off after buying from me? So amazing questions there in the comments below, gang, grab it, copy, paste it into a notepad or a Word document or whatever you’re watching, and literally spend some time, one hour two hours a day, thinking about this answering question, and it’s going to make a made if make a difference.

So what’s the next step? Let’s say that I’ve answered his questions. And then in my mind, I think that I’m very confident. Only when it comes to picking up the phone. I go, Oh, I don’t feel about

Jen Gitomer  16:35

flow, you have to ask yourself why, like, if you believe that the customer is better off having you know, I’m selling this water bottle. And I believe that if you have this water bottle, you’re gonna you’re gonna be so much better. Why would I rob you of the ability to have this water bottle? Because I’m too scared to pick up the phone? Well, maybe because it’s really awkward if I don’t know you, and I’m calling you out of the blue.

And I’m like, Hey, Mostafa, I want to bother you. And I’m sure you’re not busy now doing 100 million other things, right? Because you were just waiting on my call of this person you don’t know. And I want to tell you all about this water bottle, you’re gonna be like, what if you even pick up my phone call. And so the point there is, I think people get stuck because they have nothing of value to say, or they haven’t thought of, if I were the potential customer, what would be valuable to them right now.

So you can’t just like pick, in my opinion, you can’t just pick up the phone and expect to that the other person is going to any care in the world about what you’re offering, if you don’t have something of value to say. And oftentimes that begins with a little gentler an outreach, perhaps on LinkedIn, or somewhere on social media, where you can begin to form that relationship so that when you do pick up the phone, it’s not uncomfortable. It’s like you they already kind of know who you are, because you’ve been showing up in their world.

Mostafa Hosseini  18:06

Yeah, they’d be like, you’re the guy who’s been bugging me on LinkedIn. What’s up? Like there is there is some sort of there, they, But all jokes aside, they’d like when you do that. They know there’s contexts for calling, or if you send them a letter upfront, send them a couple of letters, and then a week or two later you call them then you’re like, Hey, did you get my message, I’m calling about that. And so

Jen Gitomer  18:33

right, right, and you want to be perceived as someone who offers value, not someone who’s just calling to check in calling to sell you something, right, you want to be perceived as a person of value. And so that means you have to offer things that are valuable. So maybe I if I’m selling the water bottle, then you might need to know about how important drinking water is, what it can do.

 And I know you’re a business person, so what it can do for your energy levels throughout the day and how it will help you live longer. I know you’re a dad, how it will help you live longer and be with your family more and all the benefits and all the things that will help you with and so I need to find ways to get this information in front of you to offer value that that that you know it may help you in some way

Mostafa Hosseini  19:33

can we have a coaching moment here? Yes, let’s do it. Alright, so I think I could be wrong. That I’m not articulating the benefits of what we do as a as a call center specializing in follow ups well enough. on on on my sales calls. Let me pull up what I do To say, so that we can work on it. How about that? Let’s do it, this can be fun. This is going to be fun.

So here’s kind of the flow that that that we saw, what I do is I asked questions for 1520 minutes to understand them on a on a 30 minute call, they talk for 20 minutes, I talk for about 10 or five minutes, just to make sure I understand them perfectly. And then I can match to what their problem is and what’s going on in their life. Then I go over how the calls could be made to events, existing past customers, all the lead magnets last proposal are so different types of campaigns that we do, which is going to result in appointments, referrals, orders in sales, and critical feedback from customers.

And then those are going to create recurring revenue, higher profits, happier customers, increasing the lifetime value

Mostafa Hosseini  21:04

of the customers.

Mostafa Hosseini  21:08

Now, I could already see that I’m not clearly stating the benefits. I’ve probably been doing some already. But I feel that I’m not explaining the benefits. Well,

Jen Gitomer  21:24

what are like I think, okay, so this goes back to our very conversation in the beginning, it didn’t matter if I liked blue and pink bracelets, what mattered was what colors they wanted on their on their bracelet. Right? Right, you can have 20 benefits, but what matters is what they care about. In fact, if you list all the benefits, they might, you might lose them, because they only care about this one particular thing.

So give me an example of some like you talk for the 20 minutes up front, about what the client about what their needs are, like, what’s an issue give me a specific example of a client and and what they’re facing.

Mostafa Hosseini  22:14

specific client, they have a list of about 7000 people, they don’t have a salesperson, that list has been ignored. And there are trying to generate leads spending money on new lead gen while totally ignoring their existing leads and the stick existing list. And they don’t have the time, the manpower and the systems to follow up. Okay,

Jen Gitomer  22:39

now, what is the benefit they would get from working with you?

Mostafa Hosseini  22:47

Getting appointments?

Mostafa Hosseini  22:52

getting referrals?

Mostafa Hosseini  22:54

Right, we talked to their team, and then getting feedback from their existing customers, depending on who we talked to when they could reflect that feedback, whether positive or negative to fix stuff inside their company. Would

Jen Gitomer  23:08

they also be saving money because they’re calling on the existing people now that they’ve already spent money getting into their sphere? 100%. So I would rather than tell them, what these benefits are, is I would ask them questions that help them get to this same thought process that helps them uncover that those are the benefits like oh, hey, Sue, Mr. Jones, What’s it costing you to have this list of 7000 people and be spending time nurturing them?

Considering all the the costs it took to get these leads? What what what do you think is the overall cost in terms of getting them nurturing them, but then not truly following up to capitalize on on the serving them part? What is that costing you in the long run? Like how much is each client worth is each person on the list worth dollar value? Okay, so if each person is worth, I don’t know, let’s just say $100. That’s $700,000 right there that we have not capitalized on. Right?

And, and okay, so it by investing, I don’t know what the cost is. I’m gonna make up a number by investing. Three grand I was gonna say five. Okay, so by investing three, would you put three in to make 700,000? Well, yes. But you could also put three in to try and get new customers.

But what’s going to be the point of that if you’re not actually getting the people who are on your list to buy from you. So like it’s a never ending cycle if you constantly put the money into getting people on the list, but then you’re not putting the money into getting them from the list. into your packages or your offers, well, then what’s the point? And now they have to think about it. Right? And so you’re, you’re telling the benefits by asking them questions that help them understand what they are.

Mostafa Hosseini  25:19

Love it, what’s the point of getting new people if you’re gonna ignore them anyway? Right?

Jen Gitomer  25:24

Right. Like, you know, or if you’re gonna, maybe they don’t even think they’re ignoring them, maybe they think they’re nurturing them by sending the weekly email. But if that weekly email is not resulting into sales, they need a proven follow up system in order to capitalize on the leads. And then that’s where I would bring in a testimonial like, or some sort of case study, like, we were working with Rebecca.

And when she had a similar problem, similar list size, similar issue. And here’s what her results were. And actually, she said, I could share this. So here’s I just wanted to show you like, here’s something she said. Love it?

Mostafa Hosseini  26:08

How what how do you see being the benefit of outsourcing your follow up? So that what what’s in it? What would be like a pain point that I should be talking about that I haven’t mentioned so far?

Jen Gitomer  26:25

Well, if they were going to follow up, if they had a proven follow up system, and the person to do it, then they would already be doing it. Because there’s so much money in the in the symphony is in the follow up? Right? So if if you already have it, then you would already be doing it. So if you don’t have it, then then you need to go with a team that has the proven method and the results like yours. Um, the other thing I would ask is, you know, there we talked about this earlier, also, like, it’s so much harder to sell your own stuff. But your team has no attachment.

They don’t, you know, like they are just they’re selling a proven product. So they’re not feeling like they have to sell themselves in any way. Right. And they because it’s a proven product, they can more easily speak to that to the other people, they’d become an extension of the team. And it often makes it easier. And it takes it off that entrepreneurs or business owners plate.

Mostafa Hosseini  27:34

For sure. For sure.

Mostafa Hosseini  27:38

Love it. Love it. That was great. That was a great coaching moment. Cool. That was fun. That was always fun. So talking about the benefits and asking questions. So the idea what I what I learned here was to ask questions that would highlight the benefits, and laying out the benefits by asking questions versus being like, I’m awesome. I’m the best. I promise, I promise, we’re gonna be the best pay me. Right, that’s probably not gonna work.

Hmm. And it’s so much as you would probably be a lot more confident

Mostafa Hosseini  28:21

by asking questions,

Mostafa Hosseini  28:24

versus just trying to lay out facts and talk about how awesome you are and how they should pay you to take care of them.

Jen Gitomer  28:31

When you ask questions, you’re in control of the conversation, when you’re just telling you’re not. And so when you ask questions, you’re guiding the conversation to I think of it like a labyrinth. And there’s all these different paths to get from where you are to the other side. And in your mind, you have now uncovered what that other side is for them.

And now you see the path. And now you have to help them get there. And I find that the best way to help them get there is to ask questions, because then they have to think and then they have to come up with those answers versus you just telling them here’s the path. And then they’re gonna be like, well, let me try this other path. And like try this other path. And there’s like 600 different paths to get to the end. But what they don’t know as many of them have those blocks, right?

They’re like, it’s like a maze, right? And so you know, the shortest path. But your job is really to use communication tools to ask so that they can get there themselves. For sure,

Mostafa Hosseini  29:35

for sure. For sure. So so the idea was to think about the path to go from here to there, from being a prospect to being a buyer and you helping them fix their issue and the challenge or the problems that they’re experiencing, and what’s it gonna take to go from here to there. And, and the rest of it. So, which which is a great segue to my next question, which is how do we prepare For a sales call.

Jen Gitomer  30:03

So your energy on a sales call is everything. Okay? I will sometimes drum or sing or dance or just like get moving, get some energy, get stuff like this stuck stuff out of my body. I know that sounds a little like woo. But the truth is that how you show up is going to be portrayed, whether it’s on Zoom or on a phone call, they can hear it, they can feel it, they can see it.

And so that piece of it, which most people don’t talk about, because they’re gonna say, okay, prepare in terms of them read everything, you can see what they’ve been up to on social media, check out their LinkedIn, make sure you check out their website. Yeah, all of those are like known kind of things, right? You shouldn’t get on a sales call if you don’t know about them.

But in addition to that, you have to prepare yourself. And here’s the key thing. If the sales call doesn’t go well, and you have a bunch of sales calls lined up, then it can easily be a domino effect. So when I was selling Cutco knives, I would have to call my boss after every sales call. And I’m like, why do we have to keep checking in like, I’m like a 1099. Like, promise, I’m going to the next one, I told you, I’d be going to, and and one day, I didn’t sell the eight piece block that I always went into, like, I wanted to sell that eight piece block eight piece block every time. And I was pretty disappointed because I thought I was going to sell it to this family. And I got out of the meeting and I called my boss Dave. And I said, Okay, Dave, I didn’t sell the block.

He’s like, Okay, well, what happened? And I said, well, they already had knives. They didn’t, you know, they didn’t want to spend the money. Right now they bought an ice cream scooper. And they gave me three referrals. And he’s like, okay, and you’re still upset, like, yeah, I didn’t sell them. I didn’t sell the eight piece I was really upset. He said, You need to move that energy. How are you going to do it, here’s three options. And I chose option C, which was to run around the block three times. I ran around, and then I had to come back, I ran around the block three times, and I got it out of me. It’s like kind of like a dog, you know, when a dog shakes, shakes it off.

We don’t do that as humans, when a kid has a temper tantrum, they’re shaking it off. It’s the same thing. So when we just let a failed sale or a failed call, eat us up inside, it’s very easy to have that impacts the next call, and then the next call and then the next call. That’s what I mean by the domino effect, like the whole thing’s falling out. So if one doesn’t go well, you have to do the reset button on your energy. That might that means different things to different people. And at different points in my life, it’s meant different things to me how I reset, but you need to know what your reset button is.

Mostafa Hosseini  33:01

So, I’ve seen people selling Cutco knives at Costco here in Calgary. And sometimes I see a person standing behind that bar. I’m like, I’m buying nothing from that person. Because they’re, they’re just like, they’re not inviting the energies down and dead on like, I can’t talk to this person. Right? So it makes a huge difference. And like, what so okay, let me ask this question.

There’s, there’s the dead energy. And then there’s this, the excited too excited energy, there’s a hey, you want to buy now if you want to buy an RV, you’re also running away? How do you balance your energy? That is inviting, that is nice and makes people want to do business with you.

Jen Gitomer  33:51

I think about it as someone’s coming into your home for dinner, you’re not going to be like, Oh my God. It’s like too much, right? But you’re gonna welcome them in and you’re not gonna be like, Oh, you’re here for dinner. Right? Like, there’s no, there’s this there. We all know what that middle ground is. And it’s just a matter of practicing in other areas of your life and then becoming conscious of it. So that when you go on a sales call, you are conscious of it.

See, it’s so natural when people come to our house, because the outcome is clear. We want them to have a good time. We want to have a good time with them. We want them to have a good time. We want to enjoy each other’s company, whatever it may be, right? That’s that’s the outcome. So when you think about a sales call, and you think about what do I want the outcome to be? Well, it’s not just about selling them. It’s about creating a great selling environment. It’s about showing up prepared. It’s about being able to help them after the sale. And so then it’s really a matter of honing in and practicing that energy in other areas of your life. Life.

Mostafa Hosseini  35:01

Love it. Love it, that energy piece is a big one. Like, here’s that here’s on the fact. I know people who are not the greatest salespeople, like in terms of the techniques of selling, but because they have good energy and good attitude they’re selling all day long.

Jen Gitomer  35:19

Yeah, I believe, you know,

Mostafa Hosseini  35:24

look, like for example, I know my grandpa. He didn’t read a book in his life, but that guy was selling all day long. And he had a good energy he and he, I guess he got it through practice. What’s your take on that? Can you Can we learn sales through reading.

Jen Gitomer  35:43

Um, you can learn sales strategy through reading. And reading is the right information can be very effective. But it’s like learning to swim. You can’t learn to swim by reading a book, okay, you actually have to jump in the pool. Okay, it’s the same thing with sales. You can’t just read a book, it can supplement it right? I can know, okay, when I get into the pool, I’m gonna go like this, or I’m gonna do the doggy paddle to stay above like, I can read those concepts.

But it’s not until I actually get in. And it’s the same thing with sales. It’s not until you actually get in the arena, and begin to try and sell things to see what works and what doesn’t work.

Mostafa Hosseini  36:29

100% We cannot read our way to success, like we have to practice. And speaking of speaking of confidence. It the confidence piece comes out of okay, so I think there is there’s two parts one is confidence coming, coming from knowing the knowledge like what to do. Yeah, I’m confident I know what to do. But then there’s a second piece about confidence that you’re like, I need to practice and become really good at it and become confident by practicing. Yes, so

Jen Gitomer  37:01

positive. Oh, sorry.

Mostafa Hosseini  37:03

Did I cut you off? No, no, no, no, I’m positive

Jen Gitomer  37:07

experiences start with knowing what to do then putting it into practice. And then the positive experiences create that confidence. So what I alluded to at the beginning, like I just assumed I was good at sales, because I had always sold things. Well, if you feel like you’ve never sold things in your life, and now all of a sudden you’re finding yourself in sales?

And how are you going to be good at it? And you’re not confident in it? Because you haven’t done it before? Well, I bet you’ve sold something. Have you sold someone on going on a date with you? Have you sold your parents ever on getting that candy bar? Have you sold someone on giving you more allowance, right? Like we are making sales every single day, it’s just a matter of act of activating our brain to recognize that we’re making those sales. And we have that experience from life. And now taking that over into like the sales arena where it’s done for a living?

Mostafa Hosseini  38:07

For sure, for sure. And you’re kind of touching on my theory on why some people hate sales. My theory is that that’s because we’re all salespeople. People are selling all day long. Whether they’re convincing and persuading each other or they’re exchanging money. That’s my theory on why people don’t like selling or being sold to sign up some of them.

Jen Gitomer  38:38

Yeah, I agree with that. I think also people have a hard time sometimes asking for money. Like sometimes people, I have clients that will come to me and they’re like, I’m really good at helping people with life coaching or with their brand, but I just don’t want to charge for it. Because just I hate asking for the money. And it’s like, people pay when people pay they pay attention.

And you know, you can give something to someone for free. And the odds of them completing it, going through it and utilizing it to the best of their ability are very low. Because they’re not invested literally. And so the minute people pay, they pay attention.

Mostafa Hosseini  39:17

Absolutely. Absolutely. So let Jen Let’s say that. We are prepping for the for our sales call. We go through the call, have the conversation asked a bunch of questions and then we do the presentation and the customer says this is a great idea. This is a great product. Let me talk to my wife and get back to you. Okay, what do we do with them? Okay,

Jen Gitomer  39:45

so here’s the thing. Let’s analyze this. They didn’t say no. But they also didn’t say yes yet. And do you want them to transfer the information to their wife, where they are going to have to do the job of selling it? or do you, the master salesperson want to be able to deliver that information? And so if it were me, I would say, okay, great.

That’s awesome. I would love for your wife to be involved. Why don’t the three of us get on a call? Why don’t the three of us meet for coffee? Let’s, you know, you don’t have to sell her. Why don’t all of us connect. And this way, now you can hear what matters to her. Because it’s likely the person trying to sell their spouse isn’t going to dig in to understand they know what’s important to them. That doesn’t mean they’re digging into understand what’s important to their spouse in order to make this decision. And as the salesperson that’s really your job.

So it doesn’t just happen with spouse, right? It happens like, Oh, this is a really great let I have to bring this up at the board meeting and get a whole board of directors involved. And that’s where I would say, awesome, what is the meeting? Could I attend and make a short presentation? Right, and now your your, what the way I look at it is if you don’t get the sale? Figure out how you can get one step closer to the sale.

Mostafa Hosseini  41:09

Patient, so then I’ll be like, no, no, no, Jen, I really appreciate you don’t have to do that. I’m going to take care of it. I want to chat with them.

Jen Gitomer  41:18

So then I would play it out with with you like okay, so how do you think your wife will? What, what is your wife hoping for? What’s important to her? And I would start to ask you the questions that I would want you to begin to uncover kind of like I’m training you on how to have that conversation like, okay, almost have a let’s, let’s play this out for a few minutes.

Would that be alright? And most people are not going to say no, they’re okay. Sure. Okay, cool. So, well, what’s important to your wife and making this decision? What really matters? What is she going to care the most about? Oh, well, she cares about the money, the bottom line? Okay, so then we have to come up with a way how do we frame this to her to show her that the money makes sense? Sure.

Mostafa Hosseini  42:06

Is that’s what what I’m asking them?

Jen Gitomer  42:09

Yes, yes. And and maybe they have an answer for it. And maybe they don’t, and then you brainstorm with them to help them come up with a solution? Like, Well, look, you know, if you have this list of leads, and you’re doing nothing with it, and you’re about to go invest $6,000, to get more leads, wouldn’t it make more sense to show your wife that you could spend half the money and, and, and get, you know, results from what you already have?

Okay, and then I would try to think of some sort of analogy, because I always find that analogies make it easier for people to understand. And the right one is not coming to me on the spot. Now, I would also I like to think of these things a little bit in events if I can, but maybe it’s like, you have all the apples in your kitchen. And rather than going out to buy more apples, you make apple pie with the ones that you have. I don’t know, that’s not quite it. But you know what I mean?

Like, why waste the ones in your kitchen, when you can make the best, most amazing apple pie you’ve got, you’re gonna

Mostafa Hosseini  43:17

have a pot to cook with, you’re not going to buy new stuff, because we already have it.

Jen Gitomer  43:22

It’s just sitting there.

Mostafa Hosseini  43:25

Yeah, there was a, there was a there was a analogy I saw someone make, he’s like, what? And he said, When I was a kid, my dad would put some food on my dish. And I was out, I would always ask for more. And then he’s like, my dad would be like, Why don’t you finish that first? And then I’ll give you more. Yeah. And so the other thing is, like, if you haven’t worked with what you already have, why are you looking for more?

Because you’re not gonna, you know, deal with them anyway. Mm hmm. So, Jen, what if what if this is just a cover up and the guy and that that’s, he’s just looking for an excuse to get out? Right? He doesn’t want to say no, he’s just like, oh, let me talk to my cousin and see what my cousin has to say about my life investment.

Jen Gitomer  44:14

Well, then that means two things, right? One, they’re, they’re not sold on the value, which means you didn’t do your job to get them to understand the value and you can take that as a learning lesson for the next person. So that you maybe if you’ve recorded it, you can go back and watch and try to understand where you’ve lost them or work with a coach to see okay, why are they not where am I take responsibility, right?

Like no, don’t blame them for not understanding the value. It’s your job to help them see it. So where so if you take the responsibility, like where could you do better? That’s number one. And then number two is, wouldn’t it be better to get the if there were really no Oh, wouldn’t it be better to get the no than to spend your time following up with someone who has no intention of ever buying from you?

Mostafa Hosseini  45:11

Sure. I love what you said don’t blame them for not understanding them. It’s your job to help them understand and present them in a way that they get it so that they can make a decision. And so let’s say, I guess there’s two scenarios. One is when they didn’t do a good job. And the other one is, it’s a no. Now how do we uncover what it is?

Like, let’s say that I came up with some BS excuse saying I need to talk to my cousin, about my business. And I’ll let you know.

Jen Gitomer  45:49

So a lot of times that will come up in the follow up, you’ll be able to decipher it in the follow up. Or you can ask some more questions like, well, what would make the difference between a yes or no? Like, what what do you need to hear from your cousin to know that this is a good decision? Or when are you hoping sometimes there’ll be like, I need I need two weeks?

Can you check in with me in two weeks? And I’m like, sure, but what’s the difference between now and two weeks from now? Like, I’m just curious, what’s going to happen between now and two weeks from now that could change your decision? And sometimes it’s something real, like, well, we’re hoping to close on this big deal. And that will give us the funding and whatever, whatever, right? It’s like, okay, cool. So what date should we check in what time Let’s block it out right now. Right. And other times, they’re stumped.

They’re like, Oh, I’m just avoiding the decision right now. And it becomes very clear that they just are pushing it out so that they don’t have to say no. And then it’s your job to go back and say, look, like you told, I believe in my heart, that we can help you. Of course, you can only say this, if you believe it. If you don’t believe it, then there’s no point. But like, I believe in my heart that we can help you. And I know that having this product is going to make a difference.

And it’s going to save you money, decrease your costs, whatever it is, that’s going to help them win or profit. So that you know, so maybe we could continue the conversation. And I could show you more, or could I connect you with a client that’s just like you that has similar needs, and you could hear from them? Right? And that’s kind of like your you’ve thrown in the flag like the Hail Mary, like, let’s miss the last, you know, opportunity. For

Mostafa Hosseini  47:39

sure. So,

Mostafa Hosseini  47:41

so let’s say we uncover Yeah, I want to do this and that, but sometimes, they’re like, No, I don’t want to do it. Right. How do we how do we react to that? How do we respond and recover? When someone gives us a direct? No? Yeah, I still know that I can help them. And I still know that they have a problem that I can

Jen Gitomer  48:01

fix. Okay. So if that’s the case, then I would keep figure out some sort of way to keep them warm. And that may be through your follow up sequence of like, how do we continue to add value so that when they are ready, you know, they’re, they’ll come to you? You may ask them like if they say no, sometimes I look at no as not right now.

So what can I do between right now this this point in time where they’ve said no, and the time in which I think they’ll buy, what can I do to help them get there? And oftentimes, it’s I mean, I just closed a sale. It’s a right now it’s a it’s a five figure sale, but it will eventually be a six figure sale. Because we’re doing a pilot. I we just closed the end of last month that I’ve been working on since April of 2021.

Think about that. Okay, that’s more than a year that I have been following up with this person. We had like 90 emails, 90, going back and forth. guy would respond. I would respond. I would throw in humor mean, most people would have followed up would would have would have stopped following up right. Emails, like, one thread alone had 54. And there were multiple different threads.

And I really believed in my heart that even though they weren’t ready at that moment in time, that we could help them and so I wasn’t gonna give up and I told him that I’m staying on you because I know we can help you. And he’s like, Okay, I’m like,

Mostafa Hosseini  49:57

sorry, it took like, a year you’re in Half a year and a few months to close that deal. Hmm. How much time did you put in into those 90 emails? Do you think?

Jen Gitomer  50:11

Maybe five to 10 minutes an email of writing and some of the emails more than others sometimes I would think, okay, how do I get back on his radar now and give him something of value right now and show him what we’re doing for other companies? For me, you know,

Mostafa Hosseini  50:38

I never thought about hours. How much 1015 hours? Oh, minimum?

Jen Gitomer  50:43

Yeah, probably more to be honest. Probably more, say 20 hours? Plenty. Yeah, yeah.

Mostafa Hosseini  50:50

But then now you have a five figure deal that is going to lead into a six figure deal. And maybe you’re gonna get a couple of referrals from them. And you never know how big that deal could actually be.

Jen Gitomer  51:00

Right. Right.

Jen Gitomer  51:04

I mean, you know, that’s, and the five figures, the first figures, not one, you know, it’s pretty high up. Like, I mean, was it worth those 20 hours? Yes. Because of the long term ability. So finally, instead of saying no, he said, Let’s do a three month trial. Cool. A paid trial. Okay, cool. We’ll show you what we’ve got in the next 90 days. Like, we got this.

Yeah, that’s so exciting. And that’s another way to drop down to someone to like, I know, you’re saying no, right now. Okay. Cool. But at least that’s how I hear it in my head, even though you’re saying no. So what about a smaller ask? Like, what we were asking for was a 12 month contract, that would have been a six figure deal. When he gave us a three month contract, right?

What what we agreed to eventually, so what maybe you you do something to show them the results that you can get them and not for free paid, but at a much smaller scale to get your foot in the door.

Mostafa Hosseini  52:09

100% I actually had that some very similar conversation with with a prospect last week. First, we’re suggesting a six month commitment. And it’s like, Oh, I’m not sure bla bla bla bla bla, we’re like, Alright, why don’t we just do a three month? Like, alright, that’s more doable? Let’s do it. Three months, because I’m sure we could deliver results in three months. And so you make it you make it more doable for them through that conversation?

Jen Gitomer  52:41

Yes. And the key is exactly what you said, I’m sure I could deliver results in that amount of time, you have to set yourself up for success. So if you know that it takes at least three months to get results, don’t tell them you’ll do it for a month. Because what’s the point? Right? Yeah. And I think what you’re also doing is lowering their risk.

How can you lower the risks to by so that they can feel comfortable? And especially when someone’s like butt is on the line? They don’t want to make the wrong decision. So they need to feel more comfortable with it. And when you can remove those risks. It makes it much easier for them to buy. For

Mostafa Hosseini  53:22

sure, for sure, for sure.

Mostafa Hosseini  53:25

Wow, you have shared a ton of gold nuggets. This has been a value bomb. That’s been great. How and where can people find out more about you?

Jen Gitomer  53:41

Yeah, so I’m Jen Gitomer on Instagram. I’m Jennifer get them are on LinkedIn. You can go to Gen Get him or.com Or Jen get them or.com/make More money and get my free. It’s a free mini course on how to make more money by removing the obstacles that may be preventing you from making that money.

Mostafa Hosseini  54:08

For sure. For sure. Yeah,

Mostafa Hosseini  54:11

the link is in there. We at the prosperity portal going there. Get access to this mini course where you can. It was it was a three day course.

Jen Gitomer  54:23

Yeah, it’s it’s yeah, it’s a three it’s three lessons delivered one lesson a day over three days.

Mostafa Hosseini  54:30

Fantastic Annie and she helps you remove your money blocks and, and make more money and it’s free. So go there, go to Jen get them er.com forward slash make more money and get access to this free course. Now, Jen, can I ask you some personal questions? Yes, of course. Awesome. What’s a new thing you have tried recently?

Jen Gitomer  54:56

I’ve been trying a new serve in tennis.

Mostafa Hosseini  54:59

Tennis New serving time Oh, you’re a tennis player.

Jen Gitomer  55:02

Yes, I play almost every day. And my first serve is really good. My second serve is kind of dinky. So I’ve been trying a spin slice on my second serve.

Mostafa Hosseini  55:17

How could they be different? I’m trying to figure out the second one. So my

Jen Gitomer  55:22

first one’s really hard. And like, I can ace people with it, it’s really good. My second one, I just kind of want to get it in. So we don’t, so we can play out the point. But then they can smash it back to us, right? Because I’m not going as hard so they can, they can hit it hard back.

So now I’m trying to learn a second serve that I get confident in after enough practice. And which, by the way, means taking out like 250 balls at a time in a basket and just practicing, practicing practicing. And until I until I’m like, Okay, I got this. So that’s what I’m working on right now.

Mostafa Hosseini  56:01

Love it. What are the top two favorite books of all time for you

Jen Gitomer  56:07

thinking grow rich, and dollars flow easily to me.

Mostafa Hosseini  56:16

dollars flow easily to me is that book.

Jen Gitomer  56:22

Yeah. And I read that book almost every month. And it’s a short read, really short read, you can read in like an hour, and maybe a day, but every time I read it, you read every time you reread something, you get a new you have a new perspective in life. And you pick up different things. And so I find I pick up something different every time I

Mostafa Hosseini  56:43

love it. Love it, love it. I added I’m gonna add it to my list and I’m going to read it cool. What’s one advice that made a massive impact in your life or business?

Jen Gitomer  56:57

Do something you love.

Jen Gitomer  57:04

I think a lot of people, you know, who wants to make money, think that it has to be hard and or have some belief that, you know, they have to work like a million hours and be a slave to their job and in order to be successful. And they end up like hating life, essentially, because their business life is unhappy.

And I stayed at my former company for probably a year too long because it was the safe thing to do. Because I was making good money, right? It was a safe, safe is relative but safe thing to do. And starting a business is riskier, but I knew that I would love it. I always wanted to be an entrepreneur. And so when you do what you love, nothing, no days feel like work every day feels like a vacation day.

Mostafa Hosseini  57:59

Absolutely love it. Love it. Love it. Jen, if you had a Facebook or a Google ad, where everyone on the web around the world could see your message. What would your message be? Oh.

Jen Gitomer  58:17

It would be around. What’s the true thing holding you back from fine creating the time and financial freedom in your business? I can help you uncover it and give you the two things that you deserve.

Mostafa Hosseini  58:40

Love it. What’s the true thing holding you back from financial freedom, time

Jen Gitomer  58:46

and financial freedom because what people will say is, in order to make a lot of money, I need to work all the time. And then they have then they become an entrepreneur, and they’re making money. And they have no time. They don’t have time to go to their kids soccer game or their kids ballet lesson or whatever it may be.

And I find that if you become an entrepreneur, you’re doing it for not just the money but the time freedom. And so you get to have both.

Mostafa Hosseini  59:12

Since you’ve been at this for a while, what are maybe one or two things that you usually see or hear people say, to answer that question.

Jen Gitomer  59:23

They don’t believe they can have both they or they’ve come to me after they’ve gotten a burnout and they now have adrenal fatigue and they’ve gotten sick from working all the time. And and I help them realize that you can actually create a business around your life instead of creating your life around your business.

Wow. And by the way, I didn’t start out there. It took me to getting sick and working all the time to actually realize that you know, and now I take off in the middle of the day to play tests and I revise Have my meetings around the things that I want to do like go into my stepdaughters volleyball games and whatever it may be. Right and so I incorporating my life into into the my day.

Mostafa Hosseini  1:00:15

Love it, love it. Love it love it. Yeah, we all have to experience that and get there. And then I guess getting supported along the way from someone like yourself would make it a lot easier and faster and make the results, you know, much, much more doable. I guess. John, this has been an absolutely amazing conversation. Is there anything you’d like to add that we didn’t get a chance to talk about before we wrap up? Have fun,

Jen Gitomer  1:00:42

have fun every day. We live in a community that is like a vacation community. So a lot of people come here actually coming on vacation and they’ll be like, have a great time. Have a great week and I’m like, Oh, you too but like this is my life every day because I choose it. And you can choose it to

Mostafa Hosseini  1:01:01

absolutely love it. Love it love it gang. If you’re watching or listening go to Jen get them er.com forward slash make more money all one word, no dash, no hyphens. No spaces just make more money. So it’s Jen gitomer.com forward slash make more money. Get access to Jen’s gift to unblock your your money issues and all the stuff that’s stopping you from making more money in sales and growing your business. And do reach out if you need help with sales.

And everything around your money mindset on rest of it. Jen is a gem and as you’ve seen in the past hour, she shared a lot of golden nuggets from her wisdom and experience. So do reach out, say hi, and see what you guys could do together. You’ve been listening to daily confidence for entrepreneurs. Thank you for joining us. This was episode 105 And I look forward to seeing you later. Bye now.